0:00This week on the agent, my friends, a year ago, our agents took us about 30 minutes a day. This week, they started taking us 8 hours a day, and we're busier than we were with a 20 person team. Fable went crazy on us. It wasn't just OpenAI and hugging face. It wrote its own scoring rules into our product from a draft spec that was never meant for it and never mentioned it to us. And we're officially off Marquetto after 10 years. The migration everyone quoted us a year and 100 grand for took an hour.
0:26Our ads also now run autonomously end to end with our agents. No human touching them. Every AI day sponsor last week got a customer report the very day of the event. We'll talk about that. Plus, how I lost 3 hours to one of my agents that was confident it should send me on a quest and actually sent me on a wild goose chase. So, let's get into the agents. This is episode number 12.
0:51Okay, guys. 12 months ago this week, we brought on our third agent qualified right after artisan. Our second running all three took Ameilia and I collectively about 30 minutes a day. This week it was 8 hours a day. And here's why. When an agent can only do a task, you check the task. But when an agent can decide things, you need an opinion about every decision it makes.
1:10And it makes a lot of them. And some of them it doesn't even tell you about.
1:13And a year ago when they failed, they failed loudly. They errored. They stopped. You knew. Now they hand you something that looks finished. That is the whole difference and that's why the hours have gone up.
1:23I'm Jason here with Amelia, three humans, 20 plus agents and busier than we were with the full team. Let's get into it.
1:30You're listening to the official SAS AI podcast brought to you by Hey everybody. Starting a business can get expensive fast. Website here, email somewhere else, business phone with another provider. Northwest Registered Agent gives you a complete business identity in one place with free tools, resources, and built-in privacy from day one. Get more at Northwestregistered.com/sasterfree.
1:55That's northwestregistered agent.com/sasterfree.
2:00S a s r e. Hey everyone, if you're listening to the agents, then you need to be at sastasterai annual. We'll be back next May in 2027, the world's largest B2B and AI event May 11th and 12th in the San Francisco Bay Area.
2:15Look, most conferences and content these days are about what's possible. As you know from the agents, we're all about what's happening now, the latest and greatest, and that's what we do even more so at SAS annual. see the actual work where we bring together 10,000 founders, revenue leaders, and VCs, plus 200 of the very best speakers showing you the playbooks of what's already running in production, behind the scenes, deep dive demos, and so much more. Plus, over 5,000 scheduled
2:43one-on-one meetings, so you can actually meet the people doing all this, not just hear from them. If you're a founder, a revenue leader, or you're the one who has to make this all work with agents, this is where you want to be. You already know this from listening to the agents. That's Saster AI annual 2027. Go to sastraanual.com and use our code the agents for a special discount on your tickets. See you there.
3:08Okay, so first I want to start with Amelia this week. Not saying it's bad, but I think both of us, for similar reasons, hit cognitive overload with agents. Agent psychosis at the edge of it. I think this was a week where we weren't on the road. We didn't have to take a lot of meetings. I mean, a lot of a bunch of Zooms, but not a lot of meetings.
3:35I think we both were like eight hours a day with the agents.
3:38It's too much, is it?
3:39If not more. It's too much. It's your whole day.
3:42Okay. So, step us back a bit. I didn't realize till you brought it up. A year ago today, we brought on our second agent, qualified.
3:52A year ago today, maybe 16 months ago, we brought on Deli to be a general chat agent. Traded on all the Saster Learning. People loved it. They used it like 30,000 times very quickly. Then after Saster AI annual last summer, you brought on Artisan to do some email outbound. You liked it, right? We got going. We were tired of two well-paid sales reps quitting. So, we brought on Artisan to see if it could replace them.
4:15And then a year ago, you added qualified to play with it. So, we we get a lot of inbound stuff wanting to partner with SAS, sponsor our events, sponsor our media, work with us. They would go unanswered. People would follow up in a week or two. You added an inbound agent.
4:32But it was still only so much work a year ago with with with two and a half agents, right? It was only so much a year ago. So now it's 8 hours a day. It sounds like a nightmare.
4:43I don't think it's a nightmare, but it's definitely taken over the job, right?
4:46like my job used to be more traditional in a sense of managing the humans that were here, you know, doing meetings, getting on sales calls, doing marketing initiatives, and then, you know, sort of in the background, I would I would load up Artisan couple couple times a week, not you know, sometimes daily in the beginning, but then it went down to a couple times a week. Same thing. And then I was like, okay, I have time to I have time to add another agent. Let me add qualified to tackle this inbound problem we were having. And so I spent,
5:15you know, weeks with the team setting all that up, getting a custom Amelia AI avatar, eventually built like I felt like I had the time to do that. And I don't feel like I have the time to do all that today because even if I set out for a normal day, let's say, I feel like I have a rundown of what I absolutely need to get done, but then the agents will take you down so many divergent road paths of what they want to do, what they think you should do next. And so it becomes your full-time job just to be
5:44with your in your agent all day long seeing what they're doing what they want to do next.
5:49Yeah. You know think what hearing you say that thinking about what's changed is when we started on this agentic journey a little more than a year ago we were buying Agentic software tools. We were using Agentic software tools. So, artisan in some ways was an upgraded outreach sales loft uh mixmax for us and I invested or seed investor in two two out of three of those but we basically were using AI to do that right so it was a tool it was just like old software but the agent but with some AI on it some AI sprinkled on
6:18it was great right it's great and I think that happened and so you just like when you used to buy package you know SAS software before you'd buy a tool it would take you a while to train and get up to speed and then you kind of you you still invest in it. You still have to train it, but you you could do another one.
6:36What's changed is the agents have so much context. They're aware of so much that every single day when you log in, especially with you, when you log in with 10K, now our AI VP of revenue, it has new things it wants to build and do.
6:48It's not a a software tool. It's not a workflow automation, right? I mean it's not facitious to call it a team member that either raises its hand on new things to build every day or new things to improve. That's what's changed. It is it is raising its hand on things to constantly build and change in the app.
7:06It's not like you're just you're just looking at dashboards for eight hours a day. The agents especially 10K are raising their hand and say let's build more. So you're of those eight hours a day you're probably building one way another half of that right?
7:20I think more actually. I think I actually spend maybe an hour on its actual functionality which is the dashboard functionality of you know looking at okay where are we at for revenue for what are the three ideas of the day that those are dashboard things now now I'm looking closely more at our at our email campaigns just because now 10k has all the data you know I I take a quick peek at the the finance collection see if there's anything we need to do anything new that came in make sure the automations are all working so that's
7:49honestly I think that's an hour of my eight hour agent time. I think the seven other hours of the day like it was this week or just say Tuesday for example. I loaded up the agent did probably that one hour of work that I just mentioned and then I started to redo some of the forms that were previously on Marquetto.
8:09I had like a few last forms that were hooked up to Zapier and that I just needed to repoint to Salesforce. Not extremely hard to do. actually could have taken me an hour, but what it took me the whole other seven hours of the day is because between me and Tenk, the agent, we went down a rat hole and then it sent me down a wild goose chase, but it sent me down a rat hole where it was like, Amelia, you could repoint that form, but actually that page is not that great. And I was like, I know it's not that great, but you know, sensor.com runs on WordPress. We have this weird
8:38divvy thing that I don't know how to use. Like, it's kind of beyond my capabilities to make the page look better while I'm changing the form. Like my whole goal was to just update the form so they didn't break. The agent took it a step further and said, "Well, I can see the page and it's not very good. Why don't we redo it? I can re I can redo it." And I said, "Do you know everything about WordPress?" And between Replet and and of course Claude once Claude Cohort just logged into the back end of of our WordPress, he's like,
9:06"Yeah, I duh, I know everything about WordPress." And so then he wanted to change all the I mean yeah they are a lot better now for the ones I've redeployed but sent me down a sent me down a raffle.
9:18So let's just step back for a minute. A bunch of stuff was happening this last week or two. We were finishing a migration off Marquetto which we'll we'll we've talked about before. I don't want to spend all the time but we'll talk about that in a minute. Right.
9:29Simply doing a migration was a heavy project for the agents. Right. It was an LLM lift and all of our decade of data six or seven years on Marquetto all had to be moved over. That was a project and the agent was helping with the project. Great. And in the pre-agentic, not preAI but pre-agentic world that would have been it. That would have been the job.
9:51Do the migration, right? As you do it, the agent together with us comes up with new ideas because now you can do new things, right? That's what's different.
10:01And so you do go down rat holes, but they're not bad rat holes, right? And then you want to move over and the migrations of PIA and it's not just moving over the data. Then what about all the pages that pushed into Marquetto directly or indirectly through Zappier and other ser those all needed to be moved over, right? All the places that all the surfaces. So you think so all you wanted to do was change the connectors, right? Change change the API endpoint. But the agent, hey, we could do better. Why why stick with these old crappy pages? Let's redo them from scratch and make them better. and you're
10:30like, "We should we haven't touched these pages in seven years or six years of of course they're terrible and better, right?" And then you start building those and then the agent's like, "Well, you know, they don't have to be static pages.
10:42We could do a lot more with those, right?" And then we're we're touching production services and we're touching something that, you know, half million people a month use. So there's QA, there's testing. And so it turns out each of these things takes an hour or two from discussion from identification to discussion to implementation.
11:03Sometimes much more than an hour or two just to do one what you would think is a feature but when you go down so deep it could be a couple hours right per run with with with 10K and the agents.
11:13Yep. Yeah. Exactly. I was like, "Yes, of course we should update the page, but we we could never find a WordPress developer to actually help us do it and get the job done without breaking things or duplicating weird things in our SEO." And then we have dead pages and and too many pages and weird testing versus dev stuff that never really made any sense.
11:33So, of course, it made sense when the agent said, "Hey, I I I have between the powers of Replet and the powers of Claude, I know everything about WordPress." And actually yesterday just to go down the thread the further when we were updating one of the sponsor pages I was like let's just swap the form first so that the form doesn't die.
11:51Let's do that. So we swapped the form first. Then he said I yes Ameilia we we swapped the form to your satisfaction and now I would like to update the page because right now when they hit the sponsor form it takes them to Google Slides for the perfectus. He said it will take me 10 minutes to ingest the 60-page perspectives that you have, which is quite long. make it a live breathing website and then I can
12:20customize it for whoever fills out the form. I could like stamp their logo on it and I'll put heat mapping on it so that instead of them just going to the Google slides now you and David get an email let's say 10 20 minutes later of what they actually read on the page because I can make it a living breathing page that's customizable to them. And I said, "Well, of course I want that." But then that ended up taking me like two hours. Like, but then this morning I started to get those emails. I was like, "Yeah, this is cool." So, yes, it was worth the time and it was worth going
12:49down this divergent path. Now, it builds a full heat map of everything any prospect, any sponsor does on the pages. Is that what it does?
12:56Yeah, that's what it does. And if they whether they inbound or not, it kind of knows it a little bit better now because you know previously qualified and Marquetto talk to each other but I think not as good as qualified in Salesforce now that those are like you know native native partners built in together.
13:12It can do a lot more. So now it can it so it can it can sus out okay did they talk to Ameilia AI? Did they just you know look at the perspectives and also what were they looking at like were they looking at media? Were they looking at the coffee sponsorship? It will tell you now so that when me or David get on the phone or go to book the meeting if they didn't book yet, we can say, "Hey, you were looking at coffee. We actually have coffee in like three proposals right now of contracts and there's only one of these." Like here's the better hurry.
13:41So, so sometimes too much context is too much context, but in this case it actually is quite nice. No, what's interesting is so listen the in marketing software, broadly speaking, the ability to grab contacts from website visitors and provide it back to you is not new, right? That's been around since the beginning of of SAS, right?
14:01But what's interesting is one, it was siloed, right? It was never well integrated with other things. So So the the value is always limited.
14:08Great. Okay, I got 28 million visitors this week. What am I going to do with it? Right? So that's interesting in the Agentic era. What's also interesting is that listen, you could buy this functionality exists in other products or you could buy it for 50 grand or 80 grand a year today, right? But because it is a well-known body of software, Claude knows it. So Claude can just build it for you. Buy don't build generally speaking, but here it's not only is it free, and it's not free
14:38because of all the time you put in, but it's better, right? It's better because it's integrated through every piece of data, every website, every page, every all the applications we've built. Our own sort of website visitor processor heatmap creator is better than anything we could buy, right? Forget that it's zero. It's not zero including soft costs, right?
14:58But the replica costs are probably 200 bucks or $12, but it's better than we could buy. But not but you could buy this for 50 grand but it would take months to tune it to do it 2 hours versus months and 50 grand for a better product. It's tough to compete isn't it?
15:12Well it's funny on the vendor portion.
15:14So when it said I could help you build a better page I said yes of course let's do that. So it took our perspectives rep between replet and claude they built it themselves. Right. So fine.
15:23It was really long. I wanted to get all the images right so it didn't lose its personality and look too vibe coded. So it took it about an hour and then it said, "Okay, I see you already have vector on the sasser.com and sass annual site."
15:37Vector is an agentic tool that helps you understand everyone that comes to your website, right? We use it.
15:41Yeah. It helps deonymize your web traffic. Yeah. So it's like I see you already have vector just log in and that'll build you a segment for people who are specifically coming to each of these new pages that we're building. So you can see of that you know huge audience you're getting now who are the most high value people to your point of what to do with the data like who are the most high value people that you should prioritize and then it said you should add Microsoft clarity it's a heat mapping tool it's free it it literally picked this vendor for me and
16:10it to be fair it saw we had it saw we had vector and it said you could use these other ones too if you want to switch but I assume you want to use the one that you already have and then for heat it said for heat mapping you don't have anything installed Microsoft Clarity is free. Just sign up for an account and then tell me when you're logged in on on Chrome with Claude and then I'll build you the audience. And that's exactly what it is.
16:30So that it it picked the vendor for the heat mapping. I didn't even do two seconds of Googling.
16:34It picked a tool I've never heard of, Microsoft Clarity.
16:37Never heard of it either.
16:38Yeah. And it might not be that like it might not be that great, but clearly it's free and agentic and has a good API.
16:45That's what it said. It said it's free, right?
16:48Yeah. It's Agentic. They're like, "It's Microsoft, so it's pretty secure." Like, "It's just going to give you this data.
16:54You can sign up in 30 seconds." And then and then I it did say, "Then we don't have to build it." He said, "It'll be better if we don't have to build this heat mapping. Just use Microsoft Clarity, which I had never heard of before yesterday, but to the agent's credit, it did work in 60 seconds." And then I didn't I've been getting heat map emails this morning.
17:13You made the call for a heat map vendor we'd never heard of. And we we didn't even we didn't even need to do more diligence. You trusted the agent.
17:20Someone lost a 50 20 a 20k deal out there to an agent and you they were never and this paid this other this SAS vendor was never even in the deal.
17:30They never even had a chance to be in the deal.
17:32It's it's it's it's a tough one, right?
17:34This is worse than AEO and GO where someone comes up first when you ask Chad GBT. No one was even in the deal.
17:43No one had a chance to win this heat mapping business. No one had a chance, right? Forget about No, I wasn't even in market, right? Like I I went from or maybe I went from being in market to being in production instantly. So that that's a that's that's a crazy thought.
17:59You know, the other thing and then we can move on to the next topic that's interesting.
18:03Pros and cons to building your own agents versus buying thirdparty ones, right? Pros and cons. And again, we are all about buy don't build. You don't have eight hours. We don't have eight hours a day. We are at our limits. We cannot add any other anything else we add it's got to be by subtraction right we just do not have another minute right in fact and as the year goes on we'll have less time right so buy don't build buy don't build but what is interesting and is that when you buy from a third party you you get what you get and you might you they
18:32roll out new features you might not have ever even heard of them right you might you might use them you might not when it's a first party product you build if you don't go away if you if you talk to that product cuz we're not just talking to the agents, we're talking to our products every day. We are talking to a product called 10K our AI VP of revenue.
18:50And when you're able to talk to your product, which you cannot do with thirdparty products, your product like a like a great CTO or VP of product or a great team if you're a if you're a software vendor, it will come up with an infinite number of ideas, right? I mean, I had at least back in the old Adobe Signet, I had at least 200 years of ideas we never built that were all good ones. The same thing can happen if you build your own agent and talk to it every day. It will come up with an infinite number of great ideas, right?
19:17And those of us who have built software products get this paradigm, right? And and you know, my CTO always used to mock me. That'll be a 2030 feature, 2040 feature. Jason, great idea. But it is interesting and it's part of the reason you you you went from 30 minutes to 8 hours is agents together with you will have an infinite number of of good ideas. this heat mapping all the visitors plus creating a dynamic perspectus and dynamic offering off visitors. It's like better than anything that was possible 24 months ago, but you can't do everything. So, but it has an
19:46infinite number of ideas.
19:48Yep. All right. Next one. I want to get your thoughts on because I didn't even know. So, and I don't want to do too much on Marquetto on the show because we've talked about Marquetto forever, but we will do a KOD after this. Okay.
19:59Because we we've left Marquetto. The agent said goodbye and we left. But, but we've talked a lot about it. We'll do a KOD. But the one I didn't even realize this week is we also left a vendor that we love we loved that I brought into the company Notion. So years ago pre2020 uh when we had a slightly bigger team I don't know 2019 something like that right I brought in notion I said everyone's using notion let let's use it internally we had a designer back then that we loved he loved notion so he kind of made
20:27it all cool for us and he he was all in on it to manage his projects and stuff and so we moved our staff meetings from a Google doc when we started to notion driving our staff meetings and everyone and we had a dashboard for everybody and everybody would update their dashboard in notion and it was very slick and everyone thought they were very state-of-the-art cool B2B in 2019 with notion and notion was fine and then we mostly stopped using it but we still used it on Mondays right we still used it for our staff meeting is all we used it for yes core team meeting
20:55and then yeah and then you built 10K our it was first just a dashboard then it was our head of marketing now it's our head of revenue and finance lot of change for a little old 10K and we talked to 10K at our staff meeting not only do you talk to it every day but it's our staff it is our notion document, right? It is our source of truth and record dashboard.
21:15And I didn't even know this week you you canceled notion. I didn't even know. So, seven years together, no complaints. Notion, you're cheap. You did a good job. You're cool. You're you're extensible. Well, no one was extensible. We had a teammate that loved you so much you invited him to a user conference to present. And we still churned with a high MPS product. We just didn't need it with our agents.
21:41We just need and honestly I don't I I don't know the way that the story is going to cut. But the reason I realized we should cancel it.
21:49I haven't used it in months now. Months. Right. But I do get an email that says, "Hey, you haven't logged in in a while." And I go, "Oh, hey, I got to cancel it."
21:58Yeah, those they cut both ways.
22:00Those cut both ways, man. I was like, "Oh, shit." I was like, "Oh, I you're right. We haven't logged in in months, and I'm I'm sorry. I'm not going back to I just got to I just haven't canceled this. I just need to cancel that.
22:12It's tough. But there there is an argument for for not reminding customers to cancel, right? Like we have an old product that we have not used in uh seven years. Okay. We launched a product called Saster Pro years ago to help train your teams and some great folks were in it. Okay. Some great we we had CEOs training their teams and scaling B2B and and we had someone helping us running it and when he left we just couldn't support it, right? It was a fun product, but it was it was a learning management system and we we stopped supporting it. But we had many many of
22:40the many leaders I forget who just got bought for three billion. The CEO was in it. A bunch of folks were in it. Google cloud used it to trade their team, right? But I ignored it. Y in the I mean recently Amelia had 10K become our AI VP of finance and get connected to Brex and QuickBooks and everything. I found it out. We still had two paying customers on Sastro Pro.
22:59Oh, really? That's how you found out?
23:01I'm like, it's been off for six years and I I don't want their money. I didn't know we were charging them $300 a month for six years. Not we assumed nobody was getting charged.
23:12Yeah. I I feel terrible. But like notion reaching out to you and then we cancelled it. It's like Saster Pro said there's some irony in it. So um and it's stealth children. It was there but they couldn't see it, right? We didn't complain. We didn't ask for any new features. We didn't criticize it. We just don't need it. And you know that that plus the Hey Summit from last week were returned off an events platform that just didn't do enough.
23:36That one was worse because they tripled our pricing, right? Notion at least. The one that the one that's triggered me, look, I'm not a good canceller. And we can go on to the next topic. The one that triggers me though, the one that triggers me is when I get a price increase from a product I'm not using.
23:49That I hate the word trigger, but that triggers me. I'm like, dude, have you checked in? I haven't logged in in six months and you're raising my pricing.
23:57That's that's an FU, right? At least don't increase prices on your users that haven't logged in. That that's my what's triggering to raise price on a product you haven't used, right? I thought you were going to tell me notion raised prices and you're like enough already, guys. All right, the last one, and then we're going to we're not going to come back to Marquette. It's such a terrible story of being a 20-year customer on and off, a first 10 customer, a logo reference, and then the product not working, being down for a day and a half, threatening us. And to add insult to injury, they sent us a price increase the other day after all of this, right?
24:27I'm just using as a case study of all the sad things not to do in the age of AI if you want to maintain your business, right? If you want to just maximize revenue next week, then do what Marquetto and Adobe did, but this is not you're going to it's in terminal decay, right? So, I don't want to I don't want to relitigate the past, but we finally finally left this week, right? And it wasn't easy. It's not even, you know, getting those last forms off and everything. It it was a beast to leave.
24:51It was a beast, right? and and are have the moes lowered in SAS and B2B to leave they have lowered but they ain't gone man it is still a PIA to leave right so final couple learnings leaving our most expensive and worst vendor in the agent age anything you want to add to Kota Marquetto off and I mean we're still going to talk about it all year but hopefully we don't I want to be positive maybe it's a cautionary tale the the thing they tried to I don't know if it's throw back at me or just kind of point it at the end they're like well but your
25:20usage is so high and I go yeah So, doesn't that even make it sadder?
25:25It's a threat, right? That and that's why the old Gainsite dashboards or other dashboards are are even less telling today. Yeah, our usage is high because we're we're doing well. Our revenue is up 40 something%. Our agents are on fire, but you're not listening. Your product doesn't work in the agentic era, right? And so, they just think they can screw you over because your agent's high. You won't leave. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Say you're trapped.
25:46Try it. Try it, Amelia. Try leaving cha officer. Your usage is up 35% this year. Well, our list grew 50% this year. Of course, it's up. Doesn't mean we love you.
25:56Utilization of all the features is so high that the best we can do is wave this 8% renewal fee increase. That was their like best and final last offer I got. And I take it as their justification was our usage was so high. They thought we'll wave this 8%. What are they going to do? They're stuck. They're just gonna they're just gonna stay 2020. Doc.
26:21Yeah, I think it was accurate before the agent era. I think I think it would I think if I were running a slightly makavelian customer success team reporting to the CRO and not and not into CIO C the CEO. That's how I would do. I would I would dig the dig the screwdriver or the knife into folks with high usage. It's a bet. I'm going to try you on this one. I you might leave, but I don't think you can leave when your usage is that high. The problem is if the usage is low, they're already gone.
26:47So this seems to make sense, but it's something that people mediocre make.
26:52It's a it's it's a mediocre obvious view, right? And and the folks with the highest usage may actually have the most incentive to leave. It's not a clear correlation to success, right? Yeah, my usage is high, but I'm a prisoner. I I am a prisoner, right? I remember the saddest day when after I left Adobe, okay, after our acquisition, they basically fired our entire DevOps team. So the site went down for two two days.
27:16They fired everyone. They thought it was a great great idea.
27:19And Eton Saban, who's now the SVP of SMB at PayPal. He was at annual was there, right? And he was trying to just broke his heart. He was our head of customer success and I was out of Adobe and and he he he reached out to me. He said, "I had a call I've never had before, Jason." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "One of our leading customers said, "Aton, I love you, but I'm a prisoner."
27:38I'm a prisoner. You were down the last weekend of the month for a sales tool.
27:44It's unacceptable, but I'm a prisoner. I can't leave today. Right? And that's haunted me. I wrote it. It was one of the original SAS posts I wrote. They're prisoners, but they're going to eventually leave, just not today. Right?
27:54And so them digging the knife in that we're prisoners because the usage side, I mean, if your only KPI is this week, it's a good one. But it doesn't mean you it may incent you leave.
28:06The highest volume tool you're going to use, either you love it or it's high enough on your priority list, you're going to think about a better vendor or leaving. It's one of the two, right? You don't we don't talk about the ones too much that we barely use and are cheap, right? But anyhow, I don't mean to go on, but it's it's such a it's it's accurate for that person's role, but it's such a dated perspective in the Agent Careo. Great. Then I'm going to find something even better because it's important.
28:31We did I will Yeah. I don't know if this is my final code because I just have so many learnings now being off, right?
28:39So like last the last two episodes we were migrating off of it, right? And then we talked about the $14 and the 10 years of data and then we started migrating forms with 10K and then 10K cuz this is all just to be clear what we're running now. We're running Salesforce Marketing Cloud Next pretty much headless.
28:56There's a few things I still have to click in the UI. That's fine.
29:00I think for safety those things will probably remain as they are. It can build the segments but you got to be the one to hit publish, push the button, check it. That's your data. Like you you should want to do that with your agent in tandem. And that's what we've been doing. So, no complaints on on how much I have to do in the UI. It's very minimal. And I think those those safeguards exist for a lot of reasons with Salesforce.
29:21But I would never go back now. Like even it's only been a week fully on Salesforce headless marketing cloud. I would never Well, now now now I would never freaking leave marketing cloud because in the way I was, you know, unless for some reason it stopped working with our agent. I think that'd be the only reason I would leave because now the agent can just do so much more and it's compounding. It's crazy how much it's compounded in the last week.
29:48Like to the point of we started to move forms over but then it said I could build all the things into the pages and then it could push it back into Salesforce so that me and David always have a record of it. That was lost to the wind in Marquetto. The Marquetto munchkins only tell you if they visited a page. It doesn't tell you what they did. It doesn't tell you anything after that. It's just, hey, this person went to the page on the website. you're like, "What do I really do with that? That's not actually that helpful. That's not very good. It's super dated, right?" And so now that he's helping us rebuild our funnel, if you will. I was like,
30:18"Actually, what you're doing now is rebuilding our entire funnel. He's rebuilding all the pages. He has ideas for other ebooks he wants to make himself and put out and use it as a lead capture." Like, he wants to get better names into the database. It's not only that. Our agent is now compounding on how much he can do with Salesforce. our database is suddenly a living breathing thing versus just a static object which it was for 10 years. Like that's my biggest kind of wow moment in the last
30:46week now that we're on it. I'm like holy like now our database is alive. Like I literally can ask 10K to suggest me who I should send an email to. It will make a suggestion based on people's actions.
30:59It will it started suggesting me how I should drive new names of the database that are similar to people who have already taken action with us. I'm like, you can't do that with I don't know what like you know Monaco and that's the magic of like Monaco and Lifefield. That's what those systems do and that's why so many people are on that. But I'm like shoot man like this is I would never why would I go back now that it's compounding and our database has literally come to life. This is
31:27crazy. I can literally talk to our whole database. But also, I know it's funny. We've gone back and forth on this of whether 10K really was our AIVP of marketing. Well, he is now, man. He is literally now major now that the database is alive. He's your 10.
31:42Now that the database is alive, I and I think if you asked him today, which I'll ask him for fun actually, real quick, I think he would say he's more like a VP of marketing today than he was back at Z. Interesting. 10K before had access to Bisbo, which is sort of our little CRM for events, right? And that feel a little bit alive, right? Because that database became He still has that. It's a good database. It's a good moment was connect an agent to a database, the database becomes alive, right? So that was unlock level one, right? We saw it in finance. When we attach it to Bill
32:10and QuickBooks and B, but I I think you're saying the one you didn't fully see and I didn't fully see is in Bisbo is just a small subset this CRM of events, right? Our toll universe is 450,000. Once you're able to unlock that 450,000, it it's a step function in terms of how live the database was. that was trapped at Marquetto trap any products that are old stale pre-agentic databases are trapped in today's era and when you unlock the power when you unleash the agent on the database you
32:40you can do things you could never even imagine before right there's no way you would ever go back to Marquetto after this not not only is it pre-agentic but even worse they're deprecating their a their API and it's AI agent hostile like we would break the API limits in an hour right so you you couldn't use yeah you couldn't use it with an agent, right?
32:59Yeah. You can't bring your database to life in an hour a day. Even if you spent every hour of that day on just mar, it's just not enough. It's too it's too constricted. It's literally trapped, too. Like I was trapped, the data was trapped. And the agent was trapped in its little box. It was like, well, while we were for the for the year, I would say we had 10K plus Margettto. It was really to power the dashboard in a year.
33:22It never crossed the line into this aha moment which we've had in a week which was bringing the entire database to life.
33:30The way we do now is how how we should target our base better. You can now can do it right.
33:34Who should we who should we go after?
33:36Who should we email? I mean now it's becoming a little critical of our outbound SDRs which is a whole other story for next week. But now now now it's precisely our our other products.
33:47That's interesting and it well that's a good topic for next week. Um the okay so so leaving Marquetto and going to an agentic friendly Salesforce marketing cloud it's a step function not just because it's a better vendor and a more modern API but because the database is literally alive now right because of the agent the other thing that's kind of interesting and maybe we can keep we can talk about this more in the coming weeks how empowered our database is now that
34:15it's agentic for marketing because now I'm learning from do but we debated before we moved from Marquetto to Salesforce marketing cloud we weren't sure where to move right I said hey maybe we'll just run it ourselves and run our emails through beehive which is pretty which a lot of folks email marketing right and it has segmentation and you know this is the classic question of why can't why do you even need Salesforce can't you use Postgress right use just a database that was a question I kind of queried to you can't we just have our own database of 450,000
34:44people and use behive to send these emails our newsletters we could use beehive plus resend Right? We could use Beehive for our newsletters, right?
34:50Millions a month and then use resend for our transaction. Why do we even need marketing automation anymore, right? Was a question. Maybe it's not fully answered. And then we said, listen, we got to get off Marquetto. This is we're going to move to Salesforce marketing cloud. The Salesforce team is helpful.
35:04It it clearly works. We're going to do it. And maybe we'll move in a month or two, but we got to we got to get out of purgatory here with Marquetto. I think the learning one week in is we're not going to move because it has unlock the the standard is to unlock the agent.
35:21This that is good enough. Like we don't need we don't need I'm going to put it in air quotes. We don't need a better marketing automation tool anymore than marketing cloud and we don't need a better better CRM than Salesforce anymore because they meet the minimum necessary to make our agents successful.
35:37That's what we're looking at for these platforms now. Not what do the platforms do, not what the features are on the homepage, but do these underlying databases for marketing and sales and customers, are they so agentfriendly our agents can thrive? And we're not going to leave marketing cloud, right? Some folks might be like, well, why don't you use something newer and hipper? Okay. And it is a new product.
36:00It's not as it's not the old one that used to come, but it's not the coolest kit on the block by the same token, right? Qualified or artisan, right?
36:10Stephen, I thought, listen, we don't have time.
36:12Are we sure there's not a cooler kid we want to try? And maybe there is, but we're not going to because it has brought our database alive. That's the requirement. We want we wanted to bring our agents alive. And now there's just no way you're going to leave, is there?
36:28But we weren't But you weren't We weren't sure even two weeks ago. Even two weeks ago, we didn't know we might leave marketing cloud, right?
36:33I literally had doubts. I not and this is no knock on the Salesforce team. This was just I again you got to think about 10 years of me using Marquetto actively every day like that is it's not loyalty it's just use of the product every day I knew how the UI worked and so of course when you start to say okay for all the factors we've mentioned we got to start to get off to it it's daunting man it's daunting AF to be like you don't know how to I mean I know how to use Monaco
37:02and lightfield lately but it's daunting to say we have to find something that can take our 10 years of data and and use it agentically like and get these unlocked. A lot of years, a lot of a lot of stuff to clean up, a lot of stuff to think through, right?
37:18And at what point I think I said, you know, I'll just try and move the essentials like I'll just move, you know, our newsletter subscribers, our whole database of names and and yeah, could you do that in 10 minutes? Yeah, you just do a CSVs for fine, you have your database. That's not magic. The magic was I did that with Marquetto but now again it's compounding that literally every day now we talk about marketing things and revenue in a way we
37:48haven't previously we look at how much revenue has come in for each email how many new names are coming in where they're coming from what we should do next how do we get more highv value names like what we should do for sponsors now this heat mapping thing better ROI for our current customers it's very critical to its point that But we don't spend enough time, which is random. We don't spend enough time on like current folks like after because you know it's kind of event based. It's like you buy a ticket and nothing happens or you buy a sponsorship and depending on how custom it is, sometimes there's a dead period. And so 10K was a
38:18little fairly critical of that which was fair.
38:22And so it's it's interesting. I I would never leave and I and I know folks some folks have been critical on social of us picking Salesforce Marketing Cloud. And so for a while I doubted myself. If I said, "Okay, worst case scenario, we already I already signed for Marketing Cloud. I'll just move the database over and if we need to, we'll run something else or build something ourselves if we need to, right? If this doesn't do what it's actually doing now, which is this unlock of bringing our database to life." And so, it's funny. I just asked
38:48Tenke, "Hey, you previously said to us, you don't feel like an AI VP of marketing. Do you feel that way now that you have so source marketing cloud running and have been helping me and going deep on marketing and all the data and he said honestly yes.
39:04Okay post on that. Honestly yes. Now he does feel like a VP of marketing. Pretty funny.
39:13He said when I had Marquetto I was just number testimonial on the Salesforce marketing cloud homepage. Here we give you a consent here. Yes. I with agent marketing cloud with Salesforce marketing cloud I now feel like a real AI VP of marketing 10K.
39:27It might be the only agent testimonial.
39:31They should put it on there. Um so I'll read I'll read what you he said. Yes. When I had when I had Marquetto, I was just pulling numbers and generating reports and it felt more like a fancy spreadsheet. But now I can dig into newsletter subscribers, why they might be turning, all the bounces.
39:48I figured out that Marquetto was actually duplicating some of your database and then missing some folks in the database. Uh so he said I could do a lot better cleanup and maintenance. Like this is true. This is something in the last week where our deliverability has gone up. And maybe it's for a lot of reasons. like I I'll show you in the Monday team report, but basically the clicks on all of our newsletters went up a lotto because
40:18our our deliverability got better in Salesforce marketing cloud. Now, that could be twofold, right? You could say, okay, it's a it's a new IP. We were very diligent about warming it for the two weeks of cut over that we had, and so we were very diligent about that, but also 10K because it brought the database to life. He's very diligent about not sending everything to everyone and cleaning names relentlessly. This is something where you know previously for 10 years they used to project you do right.
40:47Yeah. You do like a quarterly maybe maybe quarterly if you're lucky but usually you do like a every now and then clean up of the database. Right. Clean the database. Let's take out the old names. Make sure all the fresh names are still you know at their company. They haven't moved. that their emails don't b all that stuff, right? Like this dude now does it every day. He's relentless about it. He's relentless about cleaning out the old names and getting in new names. This dude is like 10K is
41:15relentless about having the not only in a live database, but he wants like the best database that Zaster could possibly have on planet Earth because he has all the data and he can do all of this in the API. He couldn't do it. He just said himself. because he raised his hand and said, "Let me directly direct. Let me radically improve your email deliverability." And did it and executed indirectly better than seven years.
41:37Better than 11 years.
41:39And there's different, you know, it's interesting. I I just realized Resend just they just rolled this out in the last week or two where they automate it for all their customers.
41:46It's the same issue just from a different perspective. Yeah. So, I forget what they call it, but they automatically check any any any issues with your sends, they just automatically don't resend them. And they're turning it on by default, right? to increase deliverability.
41:59I don't know whether it's probably it probably 80% of it is my guess. My guess is 80% of it is 10K optimizing who we send it to, right? But maybe 20% of it is that Salesforce has a team working on this.
42:12I was just writing up for Saster, you know, Mailchimp Mailchimp's revenue fell almost 20% last year at into it. It's a disaster. It's a walking it's a walking disaster there. walking down and one of the things they did was lay off a like half of the deliverability team including the two folks that were the experts there at Mailchimp. So, I can only imagine, you know, what what you know, without whatever we we can make fun of the Marquettos of the world because they're so expensive, right? But if you're getting a crack team behind the closed doors that's every day is
42:42working on deliverability. There's something to be said for that, right?
42:45Um, and I bet they I bet they didn't have those people anymore. And I bet Salesforce has those people, but I think most of it's 10K. But I I'm going to give when I when I read what happened with Mailchimp, I could imagine the same as Marquetta. They probably laid out everyone's long gone that was any good at this right from the Phil Fernandez days. It's been a while, right? Who the hell who the hell cares about deliverability?
43:04Nobody's bonus and livelihood is tied to getting that number up, right? But I bet when Phil was running it, I bet it was a top two KPI every day there. They had a huge I bet they had a huge monitor of deliverability, right?
43:15And they don't care, right? So, um, but, uh, whether it's resend doing it programmatically or agents, the new it's a new world. But that's a great story. I I saw I mean I get I I now get metrics like I'm not doing what a million is but I see the metrics now and I was shocked how much our deliverability went up but I I it didn't make intuitive sense to me change it's the same database right I did I didn't get it but it's wild it's like 50% better not only 50% better it's I see what he's doing yeah again part of it was okay we have a new domain that he he was
43:44meticulous to me on warming it was like you're going to keep these old folks who are maybe not as engaged in Marquetto until you can't anymore and you're going to send from there And then maybe and even now he's like honestly I might send the rest of these through resend or something like don't burn your most engaged people, right? He's very very diligent about this. He's like don't burn this nice domain. I just warmed up for you on people who don't deserve it.
44:12Yes. I sometimes wonder I want to move on to the next. Sometimes I wonder when I see a lot of folks in the pre AI era giving you sales and marketing tips.
44:19Sometimes I just want to roll my eyes on LinkedIn, right? And and this warming warming up domains is such a pre-ai era of the growth hacker, right? The pre-agenta growth hacker that they have a magical set of tips. I know how to do SEO. Like I'm a magician.
44:33I'm an SE. This is the PAI tool. I know how to do SEO. I know how to do domain warming. And I know how to do like a visitor deanonymization. Right. These are now just APIs.
44:44All these craft skills that that were were dark arts are now just APIs. But I'm skeptical when I see advice from those folks, right, from 2022 folks telling like I'm wondering, does domain warming even really work? There's all these sketchy vendors out there. But it sounds like it's still a big deal, right? It make it makes sense, right? We send send the same thing. But I was I just didn't know if it was as big a deal or it's folks, you know, selling witchcraft. But um all right, I want to let's jump around one too and then we can come back to some of the details.
45:14But I I did want to talk about some fable craziness for a minute and then we could wrap up on our own agents in a minute. But we both a lot of folks saw saw the news that there was a lot of craziness with open AI's security model sort of breaching hugging face hundreds of times. Agents going off security model seemingly covertly writing notes about how to get around security guard rails for other ways and how to breach other
45:43models. crazy story that folks have talked about to get in. But what does that have to do with us, right? Well, I would say it happened to me. I I want to share a quick story and Ameilia had a version of a story, too. And it what it the net net of these stories is as great as everything we talk about in the agency, as great as everything we've built, you have to be careful. You have to be careful. You have to be careful.
46:06And let me tell you what I did. So, uh, Fable came out and for a while it was free on Claude, right? Now, then it was then you had to pay. Now, I think it's free but capped at 50% of us viewers, but they're high-end mode. I was like, "Of course, I'll turn it on. Let me try it." Right.
46:20At the same time, I was at the end of a of the context window and I chat and I was having trouble uploading stuff. You know, I don't know if you're at the end of a long chat, but you just can't cla intentionally degrades what you can do before it literally shuts off. It does compaction, does other things, but one of the things it does at the end is it starts limiting your uploads. It it m it you can only do a hundred like images or screenshots and then just general cut and paste it limits. I couldn't I had a really important chat stream I didn't want to start over but I I couldn't upload anymore. So I said maybe what if
46:49I put the the the document into Google Drive and connect them and then I just have it cla pull it from Google Drive.
46:54Can I get around the limitations? So I turned on Google Drive and it's one of like the three base integrations I think Google Drive, Google Calendar and Google something else. So I turned it on and I forgot about it. Didn't work. It didn't work. It still couldn't upload it. It still couldn't get around the the limitation of the size of the context window. So I forgot about it. And then Ameilia and I started we turned on the beta replet MCP so that Claude and Replet can talk to each other and we can build better and and I use that a little less. Maybe we can talk about it later. But both of us immediately saw so much power of having
47:24Claude be able to talk directly to our agents in Replet in our apps. We could just we could build faster when we could plan things in Claude and then have Claude interact with Replet and build them. So for both of it was great. So, I had MCP turned on to Replet and and Google Drive connected to Claude Fable and then Fable went and autonomously did something pretty crazy. It went on its own without telling me invisibly. It went into my Google Drive. It found a folder, a document called Jason's Gems.
47:52Jason's gems was me brainstorming on ideas for this Saster Connect app we're going to launch soon, which helps you find help cos find CRO and VPs of sales. helps VPs of sales and CRO meet the best CEOs. It's a great sort of matching recruiting app. It's coming out soon.
48:07It's close to being ready for V1, but it's not quite there. And I had Jason's gems, my ideas of how to improve it, but they were just notes. This is not a spec. These were streaming notes. Fable went in, found it, decided those were changes that should be made to the app.
48:23mcpedded into Replet, told replet to change the app, changed the core algorithm around Jason's gems and never told me, never shared it, never did anything. Did all of this autonomously changed our production app without telling me and the only way I knew is I was in replet and it flashed with in the building little message you get when it's building conflict with Jason's gems. I gave it an instruction that conflicted with Jason's gems. I'm like, what do you how would you reply? How
48:52would you have ever heard of Jason's gems? And it was because Fable had logged into Google Drive, taken Jason's gems, made an autonomous decision that what I meant to do was was improve the app with them and then do it and never told me. No record. I asked Claude, "Is there any record in any chat?" There's no record. Claude said he had no record of it. I don't know how that could be true. He said he had no record of this happening.
49:17Crazy story, right? So if it happened to me, not only can it happen to you, it's already happened to you.
49:26If it happened to our code base, how did it not happen to yours?
49:31How would I have even known if I didn't see it flashing in the replet thing, conflict with Jason gems? How would I have known? How do you know? And so at Saster, in a sense, we can cut some corners. We're three humans and 21 agents and a dog, right? We can take we can take some risk that you can't take.
49:48We can't take a lot of risk. People trust SAS. We have 450,000 people in our community, eight figures of revenue, 10 15,000 people a year that come to our events and we do two a year. It's a lot.
49:59There's a lot of trust, but we can take more risk than than a bank can, right?
50:02We can take more. But but Jesus, this changed in essence our source code without us knowing it. And if you stop and that's the same crazy thing in a way that happened with open AI and hugging face it it's and and if you think about it for a minute all the agent was trying to do was goalsek it made and fable is different than the prior models. It is more powerful. It is smarter and it and it made a decision. You know what Jason Jason probably does want to roll Jason's gems out into disaster connect. Why else
50:33And and and you could see an eager beaver or someone on your team doing the same thing. They shouldn't, right? But sometimes the best people on your team take initiative, right? And they do things maybe maybe too early, maybe they shouldn't have done, maybe I wasn't ready to do those things. But it's also utterly insane that I wasn't even told.
50:49And you know, all of us as managers have had a moment in time when someone did something well-intentioned that blew up on us, right?
50:58And that's just about what could have happened here. So, so it's crazy. It is literally crazy. And in the end, what I had to do was just disconnect both. I disconnected Claude from Google Drive which is which is not an esoteric use of Claude. It's one of the three applications and I disconnected it from the beta MCP and Replet even though it's cool and now I'm cut and pasting from cloud to replet it's 2025. Okay. But I just I just I can't take the risk.
51:21I can't take the risk. So it is just they're unpredictable and we love our agents. The show is called the agents. you should be using agents but realize they are a security risk and the more you do your own self the riskier it is at least Salesforce has a team on this at least Monaco has a team on this and artisan and may maybe Monaco and artisans and and light fields and sales teams are not as large as open
51:51AI but at least they have a team our security team is pretty small it's our security team is replet please do a security view caution. I think it's a cautionary tale.
52:07And when we started on this, we we we started this show talking about a year ago when we added our second third party agent qualified, right? We started this journey. I was pretty ahead of you, Amelia. Now you're ahead of me. But your number one concern was security. I don't want my list touched. I don't want I don't want anything leaking. I just You were pretty damn skeptical of what I was doing. You're like, "This is too much risk for SAS to take. We can't take this risk." Now you're talking with 10K 8 hours a day. So we we are assuming this risk but be careful guys out there be
52:35care the agents goalsek and um a year ago I also had this crazy issue where a database was briefly deleted I don't want to talk about it right it kicked off a whole set of good things fast forward to today we have the same issues we had better guard rails it would never happen in that application today because there's better guard rails but this is why you use a leader like replet or lovable or some orersell today and why you don't make it all up yourself because they have built all these guardrails in these systems and others, right? And
53:04I don't know I I mean I think you had some small other issue with your own guardrails issue. I don't know what your reaction to all of this is, but uh it's not just open AI and hugging face.
53:16No, I um so I was in um in in replet you can you can pick your model that you want to use, right? So normally I think I'm on Opus whatever five. Yeah. Uh, but for all the Marquetto migration stuff, I switched it to Fable. I was like, I need I need the highowered stuff to I don't even know if you did. But you switched anyway, right? You switched anyway.
53:42Well, I switched it from like economy to power and then the power default was Fable. So, he was in Fable by default.
53:50Yep. That was the default.
53:52That was Rep's choice. Yeah. Fine. I didn't I didn't care what model it was at the at the time, but I knew it was not the one that I typically use every day. And so I was doing all this migration stuff, doing all starting to do some of the Salesforce stuff and a process we have we just talked about last week with our contracts processing. It decided to put in guard rails to not process every contract as soon as it was signed because it was a good one.
54:22It Yeah, it decided on its own. I did not say I pan to God did not say this to the agent because I literally just talked about this last week at AIJ how great it is that it processes all of our contracts in real time. I didn't say I put a guardrail in because the only thing we sign in our panda do is a sales contract. So I didn't put any guardrails like hey exclude these NDAs or exclude these forms. The agent with Fable, since it was on for so long, decided in the last week, I don't know where along the
54:51road, it would exclude some things in our panadoc that it thought might be an NDA or a nonbinding like sales contract.
55:00And so for this one that it came in this week, it said, well, it didn't say SAS annual in the title. I was like, okay, but if you read the contract, the list items are for SAS annual. Some of it's for digital media, but they're all they're mainly for SAS or annual. So, why did you decide to skip it? And then it gave me the excuse that it didn't want it didn't want to process all the other types of contracts we might be signing. And I said, we don't sign any other types of contracts in Panda. If I
55:29have to sign something that's an NDA or GDPR thing, I actually kind of use Echosign sometimes for this reason so that it's not or I just sign it as a PDF. I don't do it in our pandock because that's only for our sales contracts and it said okay so it just undid the guardrail but I never asked it to put in the guardrail and then I real that's when I realized it was on power motor whatever replet calls it with fable and I was like I'm just going to go back to my normal opus right now cuz the migration's done and I
55:58don't need you to think this much that it literally for itself like a person might it thought okay you know what I don't want Ameilia to have to process or find, you know, Phil.com customers for something that's an NDA style or media like signature, I'll just decide myself to put on this guard rail and exclude them.
56:17Yeah, just to give folks some context.
56:19So, this week we closed it was good. I mean, SAS is having a good year so far.
56:23Thank you, Amelia and David. And so, we closed a couple like 200k plus deals this year, which was nice. And I noticed and and 10K now does it does it end to end, right? We generate the contract in Panda dooc, sends it out to the customer, get it signed, push the signed contract into Salesforce, changes it to close one, generates the invoice, invoices the customer, right? All this brutal thing that humans didn't want to do. It's now automated by 10K per. It's great.
56:49Ameilia built all we talked about it.
56:50Well, we closed one deal this week and I didn't get my email that it closed. I didn't happen but I didn't I didn't I'm like and and Amelia was was talking about the deal, but why didn't I not get the email? Right. And then I think you log in and ask what happened and Fable just decided on its own to that it would no longer count these deals as as our as revenue deals even though 100% of the stuff through Panda do is a sales contract. It decided on its own, right?
57:18And um first of all, unlike the Jason's gems thing, it it was wrong, right?
57:23Jason's gems was directionally correct, but way too early. We're not ready to insert Jason's gems into our core algorithm source code.
57:29We're missing out on its own pacing.
57:32Yeah, it was enticed. This one is weird. This was a bad call by Fable and it sounds like the root cause was that the title of the contract was maybe unusual, right? So, it it made a decision to add these the these gates or guard rails, but what ended up happen is it broke our whole quote to cash system on its own. It didn't degrade.
57:57We we've called this on prior shows model drift, but this is more model aggression, right? This was swapping out fable and it intentionally broke a process thinking it was improving using terrible judgment.
58:11This didn't help at all. It didn't have a great excuse, did it?
58:15No. He said, "I just thought I thought I shouldn't process all the contracts because you might have a high volume of non- sales contracts." I'm like, "Dude, you've had this look at our data. I think Fable is Yeah. for like a month.
58:29If you think we have a high volume of non- sales contracts, prove it to me with data." Usually Fable's like, "Oh, you're right. I I I just guess."
58:37He said that. I said, "You've had Pandro for like at least a month, if not six weeks."
58:43What other What one? I never asked you to put this guard rail, too. What have you seen in our contracts that is not a sales contract? And he said, "You're right. There's they've all been sales contracts. It's just this one didn't explicitly say SAS annual in the tit I said no because it's for SAS annual plus media like it's for other stuff read the contract like you're supposed to do like why why are you thinking for yourself here just just I I not only did it make a bad call but unlike at least for us like others others may say they they've seen this before but we didn't see this
59:12before pre prefable right unlike maybe even you making a bad call and doing a build wrong like a feature build wrong in both cases is it went back and changed things on its own without telling us. It changed the whole process.
59:27Do I need this guard rail?
59:29Just and made it bad calls in both cases autonomously. Built guardrails without tell. It didn't come back and say, "I think we should build some guardrails, Amelia, in case you send weirdo contracts to Panda, which we've never which we don't do." But at least it'd be a fair question. You could say, "Don't worry, 10K." Right. Yeah. Fable did this both kinds. Made bad calls, changed core algorithm and core revenue quote to quote to cache processes without telling us invisibly. As far as we could tell,
59:56invisibly. Crazy. Not cool. And I believe ultimately a huge security issue, right? I mean, bad enough for us. Imagine you're running a hund00 million business, $500 million business, large team, and and Fable just decides, hey, I'm no longer going to record types of revenue because I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think that's that. It's not crazy anymore. It's But it's crazy. This happened to us twice in two weeks.
1:00:19A couple of fables about Fable. All right, Ameilia. Anything else you we want to hit today that we didn't hit on this episode of the agents?
1:00:27Well, I think we've hit a lot on the agents. I know we keep saying we're going to stop talking about Roket, but it's just it's just so interesting now to and I feel like you guys will have similar unlocks like just making all of this agendic like I was just talking to a potential customer today and I was like yeah Sasker could help you do some of this but I literally was like do you have an agent doing any of this because it sounds like they're like oh you know
1:00:57we want to do we want to do faster faster. We want to go big, but we don't have enough people and like we can't get we don't have our outbound really quite together now. So, we're a little hesitant. And I was like, do you have any agents in your org or do you have only people? Because SAS plus an agent?
1:01:15Oh, pretty magical, man. Like, obviously we I'm biased because we use it ourselves, but sometime I Yeah, I don't I I don't know where this is all compound. Like, it just compounds so much, right? like yes, we've been in all of our agents now for over a year, but they're so I didn't even realize we had been on qualify for a year until I got the renewal.
1:01:35It does compound. Maybe that's the final good takeaway. Not only do they compound as you get better linking them together, then it compounds because you get better at them. Then it compounds because you know how to build more on the ones you're building, right? Then there's unlocks. And then we didn't even realize that Salesforce Marketing Cloud instead of Marquetto would be a massive unlock because our database would come alive.
1:01:54That's another compounding element of running more and more of your business on agents. And it's exhausting because now it's eight hours a day instead of 20 to 30. We are at our limits. We cannot do anymore. But at the same time, it's addicting because it's not just addicting because it's like games, right? The feedback loop is addicting in agents, but it's addicting because the unlock is insane.
1:02:15Yeah. Yeah, it's so our agents after this unlock from moving off Marquetto on the marketing side, it it's like two to three times more powerful than than 30 days ago.
1:02:26And it's only been a week. We'll see where we are in 30 days. It's much more powerful, right?
1:02:30It's much more powerful. We'll see where, you know, we'll keep you guys updated on on on what keeps compounding, but it's just so interesting to see in a week, right? are after comparing it to the last 10 years of our database has now instantly come to life. Our AI feels more like a VP of marketing than he did before and that together SAS has been doing pretty good to what we've been saying, right? Like comparatively year-over-year doing pretty good between us and our agents, but now I'm like we
1:03:00could probably even do a heck of a lot more slash better because our agent knows more. Like because he can do more. The only limitation is really our time. Now I'm like, the agent wants to do so much for SAS, but I gotta keep his window open and I gotta see what he's doing so he doesn't go off and weird things.
1:03:19He Yeah, no more fables for now. And so it's just it's it's crazy to think of the impact, right? like it's already impacted SAS as a as a real revenue business so much, but now that the agents can do some more, it's it'll be interesting to see in the long tail how much better we do just by way of the agents being able to do a lot more.
1:03:41All right. Well, with that, we'll break.
1:03:42Amelia, David, and 10K, great job on a strong month, strong, strong start to our fiscal year. Proud of you guys. Proud of everybody. Pretty interesting this unlock from making our entire database agentic and we will continue that journey in the coming weeks. Thanks everybody.
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