0:00Okay everybody, welcome back to your favorite podcast and show the agents.
0:04This is an exciting one. One of the things that is hot is headless. But what the hell does Headless mean? Well, this week Amelia connected the same Salesforce or to three different AI tools. Cloud Force just out, Replet and Lovable. Same data, same questions back to back. Out of the box, they seem almost the same product. But first, the bills weren't the same from $2 to $16 and more. And most interestingly, when we asked them for the top five ideas for our business, we got three different lists.
0:31We did. And the agents are picking our vendors now. So Jason asked the connect agent where to host and it chose a company he'd never heard of. And I asked what to buy for AEO and it told me to build it. Today, the Salesforce head-to-head, what it takes to sell to an agent, Astra versus Fable, and a demo of the prospector we built ourselves.
0:50Yep. I'm Jason here with Amelia. Three humans, 21 plus agents. Let's go.
0:56Let's go. Okay. Should we start with our bake off that we did of Claw Force versus Replet versus Lovable?
1:03Yes. But let's step back for a minute. I didn't even know you were doing this. We've been running Salesforce so-called headless for the better part of a year. That's that that is the the core of our 10K AIVP revenue.
1:17Why did you do this? I think you did this in in in part because Cloud Force is coming out was a big push from Salesforce to access your Salesforce data through MCP. But what was the thing and what did you build and then show us what we learned? You're listening to the official SAS AI podcast brought to you by. Today's episode is brought to you by Stackadaf, the AI powered marketing platform that allows you to plan, execute, and analyze both owned and paid media campaigns from a single platform.
1:43As the world of advertising continues to evolve, catch up on Stackadapt's innovation forum event to hear from its co-founders, OpenAI, and other industry leaders about the shifts reshaping digital advertising, the AI innovations driving them, and what they mean for marketers. Watch it for free at go.stackadapt.com/forum.
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2:22That's northwestregistered agent.com/sasterfree.
2:27S a s r e. Yeah. So, my thinking was I I ISAT got into the cloud force beta. So they announced it at Dreamforce beta is live with select customers and I know other customers of Salesforce who have asked to be in the beta and and they're still on the wait list. So it was a gift to us to try it before everybody else can and I feel like it's it's great for this community to share our learnings because
2:55I learned a lot actually. I I did it as a bake off just to see okay benchmarking we've had 10k now built on replet using Salesforce headless for over a year. So that's not really a fair comparison. So I actually took it out of this comparison. I can bring it at the end to show you guys the differences between a headless Salesforce agent that's had a year of iterations, right? Versus I wanted to do a true kind of benchmarking out of the box of okay, this is Cloud Force. It is still in beta, but how does
3:24it work? And then these are the outputs you can get using replets built-in Salesforce connector, lovable built-in Salesforce connector, and then just versus classic Salesforce sales. So I wanted to do a little benchmarking to show folks what it's like and also just to learn, right? We've been using 10K headless with Salesforce for the last year, but we I spent my whole day with 10K. It's not really a fair comparison.
3:49And so I thought I would do a fresh start on each of the three platforms and just see what happens.
3:56I got it. Yeah. I mean, we chronicle our journey with agents in 10K, but the reality is we're hundreds of hours into building 10K, right? And obviously you you rebuilt a version of it at Saster AI annual. People can watch that session.
4:08We obviously would save a lot of time starting from scratch like any project, but we are hundreds of hours in. So in a sense, not only is this headless Salesforce, but it's okay if you want to build your own type of 10K or or your own headless instance. Let's try it three ways. Cloud Force, Rep and Lovable, and see as of today with the current connectors what what it can do, right?
4:27Yep. So let me start sharing my screen and I'll show you guys what the bake off looks like. Okay. So let me walk you guys through the bake off. So this is Salesforce as you guys know it today.
4:42This is just my pipeline. Keep in mind, I'm just a part-time seller on the SAS sales team. So, you're going to see here, this is just my pipeline. David has most of our pipeline, but this is just classic Salesforce, right? You can see it's literally I've never actually configured the seller home. This is just how it is. It's got, you know, my total pipeline, how many accounts I have, how many I don't have very many contacts in here apparently that are my owned contacts. But you can see this is, you
5:11know, this will look familiar to most of you. This is just classic Salesforce out of the box. This is my seller dashboard. Okay. So now the three comparisons to again just out of the box and I'll show you guys what I did for I'll show you each of the three first and then I'll explain the methodology behind it. So this is Claw Force. This is Claude. Claude's new connector to Salesforce.
5:34There is a Salesforce connector. If you try and go in Claude right now and connect it, it will tell you it's in beta and then you can like request access. So, anybody can do that now if they want to try and get in early before it goes G.
5:46Right now, if I go into Claude, there's no way I can directly connect to Salesforce or only Cloud Force is in beta.
5:52There's no way that I know of to connect to Salesforce outside of Claw Force.
5:57I got it. Okay. Yeah, it's it's the first way. I mean, we're calling it Cloud Force, but at a more basic level, it's the first way to use Claude to connect to Salesforce. Correct.
6:05Plus, it's a bunch of pre-built skills so that they've done some of the work for you so that some things you might want to do on the Salesforce data, you don't have to figure out from scratch, right?
6:14Exactly. So, I'll show you guys a couple things here. So, it's right here on the left hand side. It's showing all the skills here in the session. I think there's about 35 pre-built skills it has here of things, you know, it's suggesting so that if you put your whole seller team on it, which is going to be bigger than ours, you kind of have a road map here of what you can do with it. If you're if you're used to seeing it this way versus seeing it this way, right, which is a little bit different.
6:39You can see there's different info it's already giving me versus just classic Salesforce in the UI. Okay. So, so this is Cloud Force. Like I said, you can you'll see it in the in the Claude connector, but you'll see it says beta and then it will take you to the page where you have to request beta access for now until it's G. So, so that's Claw Force. I'll show you guys the other two and then I'll I'll walk you through the differences because I think it's similar yet different. So, so that's Claw Force.
7:06This is Replet. This is Headless Salesforce in Replet again out of the box. I will say I gave each of the three platforms. So Quad Force, Replet and Lovable, the same prompts. The first prompt I did was just give me a dashboard and give me an account map. So they each had that literally word for word. I copy pasted the same prompt into each of these three instances. So this one's replet looks very similar.
7:34And then I'll take you there.
7:35No dashboards or anything here. There's no there's no there's no visual representation of Oh, there it is.
7:40It's down here. Yeah. Yeah, it's down here. It actually it's interesting you call that out because it force ranked the top five things to do at the top and then put the dashboard more at the bottom.
7:48What to do we thought was more important than a stat than a static dashboard which I guess exactly which is interesting.
7:55And then I'll show you guys lovable.
7:56It's interesting cuz lovable is the only one that I didn't ask it to. I gave it the same prompt. I said use your Salesforce connector. Give me a dashboard and give me an account map. It built in a login. It's the only one that built in a login.
8:14I don't know if that means it's slightly more secure than the other ones, but it's just interesting to me that out of the box, I didn't ask to make me a login. It just made me a login. It decided to call it Ledger. And then this is what it looks like logged in. So, this is a lot more like newspaper style, which is interesting. The other two look a little bit more vibeed. This one's more like designer friendly, but you know, it's there's the big headline here. You've got like 5 million of Open Pipeline. your win rate's pretty good. I don't think the other ones may not have
8:41win rate as close to the top average deal size. And then top five things to do are also above kind of the rest of the dashboard things here. And then it's also giving us our top accounts which the other ones don't have. So already you can see there's some similarities and differences too.
8:57Yeah. It is interesting out of the box if you're visual like I am. If it helps you the level one's much much more consumable, right? It it it's all it's it's the best summary. It figured out the best three metrics, right?
9:10Figured out the best analytics that I had that that would matter to us, right?
9:13Everyone's different. These are the matters to us.
9:15And it came with a login that just worked. Like I didn't have to do any weird clerk stuff like it you can just make an account and then log into Salesforce as well.
9:24My guess is that's probably because unlike the other two and this wouldn't make sense for Cloud Force. It assumed you wanted to build an app out of it.
9:32Right. Didn't yet assume that hey, you want to publish this externally. to say, "Hey, Amelia's going to publish it for a team, so let's have a login, right?" So, but yeah, that is that is helpful. It's much closer to an getting to go on an app versus a connector right out of the box.
9:51Yeah. Interesting pieces here. And I'll hang out on the Replet one for now for fun. Actually, maybe I'll hang out on Cloud Force because maybe you guys haven't seen that as much as Replet or lovable.
10:05interesting things here of one how they're connected. So both Replet and Lovable use the API. So when it comes to costs and this is where I'll be transparent like nobody knows what the cost of of the new Salesforce pricing for like MCP or API calls is going to be. I don't know it like and we don't Salesforce we don't know it yet, right?
10:25Like they're they're figuring it out of what they're going to go GA with. So I'll I'll just give you guys the cost on like the platform side that I did building this little bake off versus like you know we I can't share what we don't know yet. So I don't know yet what Salesforce is going to charge for API calls versus MCP but both replet and lovable are using API and then CloudForce is actually using MCP right?
10:51And do we know is Salesforce going to charge you extra to use Cloud Force for your own data? Do we know have they said that or just for these external APIs like reputable? Do we know?
11:01All right, we'll leave that for a future show. I know. I would not be excited if on top of what we paid for Salesforce, I had to pay for Cloud Force, too, just as a different way to see my data. I would be I'd be frustrated. But we let's let's take go away from that till we know what's actually going to happen. But yeah, for sure in the other two are using the the basic Salesforce API, right?
11:23Yeah. Which is what we've done on 10K as well.
11:26Exactly. So then coming into what the cost for each of these. So each for each of the three of these I told it again just to build me a dashboard and build an account map. Then I gave it one more prompt which was give me the top five things we should do and that and then I left it at that. So just in terms of costs on these platforms just to see what you guys see now. Replet was about $11.81.
11:51Okay. So I'll show that one. So Replet was this was about 12 bucks to get here.
11:56Versus classic feels worth love poles only $2.33.
12:05You know, in all fairness, did you pick the model in replet?
12:08I I Yes. So, you might have picked opus or something, right?
12:12It's funny. I started it on free just to see how far it would get.
12:16And then it was like, "Oh, you should finish this build in in Max on Opus." So, then I did switch to that, but it it did suggest it as the agent. Yeah, it is. I don't want you distracted. We're not yet doing a detailed quality comparison, but I think Lovable picked more cost effective models to build this for $2 is the probably the reason, right? But in any event, that's the answer. 15 versus two bucks.
12:37Yeah. And in Lovable, I will say I asked it what model it used and it said it couldn't give me a straight answer of which one model it used. And to be fair, you can chat, but you can't pick models here like the way you can in Replet. You know, if you're in the actual chat, you can just come here and then pick what models you want to use, right? So there is a difference.
12:55You and I are both very biased and replet and overpaying for our models. We want to use the frontier models. So it color color the cost but it's great data.
13:03Yeah. So yeah that's one thing about like truly building for internal on that's why replet is the house of 10k and remains the house of 10k is because I can pick the models because I do get picky. We can chat later why I actually switch to Astra but I am picky about which models it uses. So there's that. And then clawed force was about $15 just in clawed usage.
13:28Got it. Although that was in all fairness and keep going. That that's useful. That is included in your claw max plan. So you It is. Yes.
13:35Extra $15, but that's what it estimated to cost.
13:38Yep. I asked the agent. I said, "Hey, how much do you think I spent on this session out of all my like right now I'm on a max plan, which is 200 bucks a month, and it said I think you've used about 15 20 bucks of it so far."
13:51So I think interesting again I think we can save it for a later episode once we know actual costs all in I just wanted to share just costs we have out of the box. So, if you're thinking about hooking up your Salesforce to an agent today, kind of what it was and what it looks like to what it costs just for these platforms out of the box, right?
14:14Everything else aside that a Salesforce contract, we're not factoring into that cost. Everyone's cost is going to be different there. But that aside, this is what we paid just to get to this instance where they look very similar.
14:27So, I think that was a big learning for me in doing this bake off that out of the gate with the same prompts. I mean, Lovables looks the most designwise differently, but they function fairly similarly. Like, they all do what they're supposed to. They all have a dashboard. They're all giving me the top accounts. They're all giving me now like the top five things I should do with our accounts. Those are different. So, we should go through them next. But, you can see like the the similarities are more there than the differences. So, let's go into Oh, so a couple things
14:56actually I want to talk about in this as you guys kind of decide because I I don't think a lot of folks yet have put out what Claw Force looks like.
15:06Read write access. And so I asked each of these agents the same set of questions just to see if they would give me baseline the same answers. And for the most part they did. The top five ideas are different. And then I also asked each one of them, do you have read access, write access, or do you have both out of the gate? And so out of the box, Claw Force has both, but it's been restricting itself while it's in the beta to read only. I think that's wise.
15:32It has a right tool where you can write back to it. It's also available, but I think they built it that way because when it goes G, they probably just want the admins to be able to write back and not like a thousand sellers to be able to write back to Salesforce data all at the same time.
15:46Replet has both same kind of idea read only by default and it will confirm with you in writing before it takes any actions to write back to your data and then same story on lovable it has both read and write by default but it will also confirm with you in writing in the agent before it writes any data back to Salesforce but again worth noting lovable is the only one that actually built a login for it so interesting there and then so let's look at what each of them said we should do
16:14cuz I feel like this is where they splinter more in how different they are other than the design of lovable. So in clawed force just on our top five actions based on our open pipeline it wants us to close you know any stage four deals we have. Okay that's a that's a good you know if you're a seller coming in that's a good to do at the start of your day. It wants us to engage more with our larger diamond renewal. So that's like Google Cloud that it has mentioned here that it's sitting in like
16:42our Q4 close date. It wants us to do what's called a blitz in Cloud 4. So it's saying you've got a bunch of deals that total over a million dollars in stage two. Push to get them to stage three or close. That's a good that's a good reminder to do that. You have some bigger deals here that you should escalate since they've been kind of dragging. And then funny enough, it surfaced that we should push more with Salesforce
17:10to get a better timeline and proposal on the books. So those were Claude Force's top five recommendations. Looking at Replet, it's got slightly different ones. So it force ranked them a little bit differently. It it does surface the same deals that it wants us to try and close in October.
17:27It also kind of has a version of a blitz here where it says you should, you know, get some of these deals that are in stage three and don't have a next step formally recorded in Salesforce to have a next step in the books. It also kind of brought up Google Cloud and then it actually brought up like negotiation terms. This was interesting. I was like the others brought this up in terms of the deal where it wants to see if there's any old blockers on decision dates in renewal
17:56terms for examples. It wants to look at renewal terms in terms of you know payment terms anything in the negotiation that might be close that might be a hindrance in closing this deal. And then five it's putting at number five which claw force put at number one to try and get the the ones that are in stage four actually over the line. So interesting how they force rank them and also surface different things.
18:19And then finally on lovable just our top five things. The number one thing it actually said we should do which is different from all the others that didn't even surface this is we should rescue the overdue deals. And I agree. I think that that is probably the number one thing you want to do intuitively when you come into Salesforce is rescue deals that are past their close date or past their forecasted close date just to keep your pipeline more honest, which it calls that. I do like that. get meetings on the books for five of those deals that are in that working stage and
18:48overdue. Okay, unpark seven renewals. That's pretty similar, but it didn't really force rank, you know, the diamonds versus the other renewals. It just said all your renewals you should unpark. There's a few deals that don't have dollar amounts yet that need work.
19:01And then this one also agreed on Google Cloud getting it over the line. So some similarities and differences there on what it thinks we should do with this data which I think is just based on whatever model is underlying right. So lovely I don't know what model it's using here but it's obviously surfing something slightly different than you know using quad in replet directly and then just using quad force directly.
19:25How do you rank these three?
19:28You might need more than one criteria criterion but how do you rank? Now, honestly, I would say for ease of use, both Replet and Lovable were super easy. Like you just asked the agent, connect me to Salesforce, and they have built-in connectors, right? So, right now, go through ease of build. Which one's easier? Rank them ease of build.
19:47Ease of build, I would say lovable was the cheapest, but I think it's tied with Replet for how easy it was because they both have connectors. And so you just tell the agent even if you go to sign up for either of these platforms today, you can the first prompt you can put in is connect to Salesforce and they both have a built-in connector already today, right? Whereas Cloud Force is still in beta. You have to request access. So for today, the ease of build is not as good as the other two.
20:12Okay, but that's with an asterct because Cloudport with an aster, right? Okay. Ease build quality quality of data and application.
20:21So I would say they're all tied. So I did ask each of them the same questions like I asked them who's the account owner on Finn and they all answered correctly which was me and then I asked them you know how many deals do I have versus David and you can see they s like this one claw for surface it in the dashboard they all answer that correctly too where they start to differ is again if you give the agent actions like give me the top five ideas or what should I do today like if you're waking up as a seller and you're like hey what are the things I should absolutely make sure I get done today that's where they start
20:49to differ I think out of the box they're all very similar actually more than they are different.
20:54And uh what about UX UI? Which one's the most usable?
20:59I mean, I like this one. I will say I had to give Replet more instructions for it to get to this UI. So, than the other two, those other two are pretty much out of the box. Like the first one it gave me was alleible a little. So I had to give it a little bit more prompting than I gave the other two to get it to this like dark blue and green that you see it has. Now I think again depends on your audience too, right? Like if I was building this to share with you out of the box as a
21:28dashboard, I would say the lovable one wins on design. It's like this newspaper style is easy to read. The win rate everybody understands like the top three things that surfaced. That's all you need is that top screenshot if you see nothing else. And I feel like that's super easy to understand. Whereas the other two you have to scroll down a bit to get the to the actual open pipeline. It's surfacing different things in the pipeline.
21:53Then you know claw force and replet art. This is in dark mode. Fine. So I would say in terms of design I would go lovable claw force and then riplet.
22:05Interesting for me and they keep going.
22:08We have very different roles. We run it together. We have very different roles at Saster, right? Yeah. Love the lovable presentation is the only one I would use.
22:17Oh, now I don't even use 10K. Now I go into 10K for questions. Like this morning I wanted some metrics on year-over-year data.
22:25So I went into 10K. It's great. We've architected it.
22:29It's great. But it is so dense and thick 10K that I will never go to 10K just in general. I'll only go for answers, but I go for a lot of answers. You've done a great job. The level one at least out of the box, man. This for me as a stakeholder, but not in it the way you, David, and others are. This is what I need to know. What's on the table?
22:49What's our win rate? What's our average deal size? What are the top things we should really do? It's really structured in a way.
22:57So, it's interesting. That's the most valuable to me. And then my my guess is I don't think you could answer this one because we didn't go this far, but the other interesting one I think about is which is the best at multiplayer out of the box. See, Lovable already has a login. Okay, now that's probably as far as it went, right? But it is one step further on an app everyone on your team can use. I don't think Claw Force by definition is going to be multiplayer because it's great that I don't think it can be it can be an app. Like we'll see
23:25when it's like what if you have if if you and I are both using Cloud Force, right?
23:29We're gonna have different maybe we can share this dashboard across us. It is share, but I don't think it's isn't going to be as intuitively multiplayer as an app, right? TBD TBD, right?
23:42So, I like lovable because it's best for me and because it's the furthest along on multiplayer and and the way we build a lot of our agents in Replet, which we love, they're very much not external multiplayer agents for the most part.
23:54their internal ones, right? And so I think it's a thing for the future which is as folks use agents like we use them across larger teams, you need this multiplayer external use case that all different stakeholders can use, right?
24:09It's a layer of complexity we don't have to deal with on a daily basis. So I I'm we're on we're we we love all three of them. They're all partners of ours, but I for me lovable is a big surprise.
24:21It's the only one I would use the only one I would use. Okay, it was surprising for me. I frankly I don't use Lovable as often, right? Like 10K is built in replet. So I spend a lot of time on Replet and I use Claude co-working six to 10 hours a day.
24:38Yeah. So it's it's interesting because I did it just to do it as like a benchmark of obviously we're still we love the folks at Lovable and I wanted to make it more of a fair comparison of I know not everybody's on Replet and I know there's a lot of people on Lovable already. So to do a true out of the box comparison, I just wanted to see what the three were like. Again, asterricing that Cloud Force is in beta. And you can see here, like, you know, it's it's loaded in these skills here, which again, if I had to I know that everybody at Salesforce
25:08is on Claw Force, so that's I don't know how many of their 80,000 people are sellers, right? But that's maybe half the org is already on Cloud Force. But I I get the sense that it's not meant to be multiplayer. It's meant to be like if you're David and you're logging into Salesforce and you're not necessarily me like do you want to look at this with this plastic or you want to look at this it's much like let's stop for a minute want you to have their own claw force using it instead of logging into to to grandpa's salesforce I mean it's much as
25:37long so much better and you can talk to it you can work with it and it'll have analytics and it'll have LLM built into it I mean why would anyone use native Salesforce when you could use cloud force right or any of these three exactly rightly I mean that was our early you know our early learning you know we never log into Salesforce itself anymore why would you no I don't it is very disruptive to all B2B apps because you since these were built from scratch right in in less than an hour each right for for three between two and 20 minutes
26:06maybe 20 minutes each you'll never log into these your B2B apps ever again you may you may or may not MCP into them you may need a package of skills and help like cloud force but good god this is all three of them are an order of magnitude better than Salesforce standalone, right?
26:22Yeah. It's funny when I started doing this bench benchmark, if you will. It's a light benchmark/bakeoff.
26:30I was like, actually, I need to compare it to regular Salesforce. Cuz first I was like, okay, I'm just going to compare them against one another for this podcast. And then I was like, no, actually, we've been using agents for so long that the benchmark is this. This is the benchmark. This is just normal Salesforce loaded up in the morning which I've forgot about cuz I haven't looked at it in a year versus this is Cloth out of the box.
26:51It's already 10 times better.
26:53And then these are replet and lovable.
26:55And I will say the the case for for replet and lovable is it can connect to other apps though, right? So it's just how far do you want to go on this journey? Cuz for me, okay, like it's not a fair comparison to like a 10K because th this has had a year, man. It's connected to everything we have in Salesforce. is connected to Bill. It's connected to our entire stack. There's 20 different things here that it's hooked up into. Like it's just not a fair comparison to compare 10K which has
27:23had all these tools for a year versus these three things.
27:27But you know it's interesting. It is a fair comparison in the sense that okay let me step back my learnings just watching you right as cloud force and similar similar things like cloud force right MCP plus skills abstracting away the complexity more and more of them go live.
27:40It's going to be much better than native B2B app right. Yeah.
27:43And and and so and when we look at the three for for single player use cases, I'm going to give my own opinions after, but they're roughly equivalent. Really roughly equivalent, right? Um I think there's some significant UI, UX, and other differences, but they're roughly equivalent, right? They're all much better than what you have.
28:01So I think where we may be in a couple of months as this matures is if you just want to use Salesforce primarily or HubSpot or whatever it is, use Cloud Force, right? or HubSpot force or whatever it is going to be more native.
28:14It will ultimately be e like right now you said cloud force came in three to hook up but I remember when we first hooked salesforce up to replet it would took work right and so cloud force is going to be easier it's when it's it's going to be easier for sure one there's not going to be token expirations token that was just like anything you're going to want to use cloud force because it it is out of the box for this use case as good headless v1 as lovable and ripple it is but to this slide instantly when we went headless we
28:43realized we We could hook up Quickbooks, we could hook up Bill, we could hook up Agent Force, we could hook up all these other applications.
28:49Will you will you want to use the Cloud Force or its peers at other applications if you want multiple applications? And that's where I would instantly skip Cloud Force for Replet or lovable as soon as I add anything that wasn't natively integrated inside of Salesforce, right? Then then cloud force cloud force for us as cool it is is basically useless because it can't rep it can't incorporate all of these other integrations inside of it like replet and lovable can right I think I wholeheartedly agree I think
29:18they each have their time and place right like the biggest difference for me in the end after doing this bake off and reflecting on it and putting it all together for you guys was replet and lovable can connect to other things and obviously we've connected 10k and replet to 20 different apps And so that's where I think if you're more of the SMB startup or you're in the you're in this new batch of folks that are in SAS and B2B with three people, maybe
29:48less, maybe more, but you're doing millions of dollars, then you may not want to use Cloud Force because it's too limiting. But if you're Salesforce or if you're an enterprise and you're a huge company and you don't want your sellers automatically writing everything back to Salesforce, you want some more guardrails. That's where Replet and Lovable are harder to guard rail login aside, right? Like those are just going to be harder to guard rail. They're creating so much data instantaneously for all your sellers that you may pick
30:16Cloud Force out of the box because you purposely don't want to connect it to other apps.
30:20Yeah, for sure. Yeah. the and and certainly the more SMB you are the more flexibility you may have here right 100%. You know, one last point then tell me this is so good Ameilia. Thank you. I one this isn't that interesting but what I can see when I see the three side by side is something very similar I see in our AI SDRs and BDRs the the Monaco artisan qualified agent force at all is very interesting that at least today when it's still still early in the grand scheme of things these agents are and
30:50platforms very much are expressions of the founders and people who built this.
30:54So like replet you know we love the team there we love onj and kodel it's a nerdy company in a good way it is a developer focused company at its roots ID it roots and the output is the nerdiest this is very nerdy output all black it has the right ideas the top five things do at the top but dashboards or other things it doesn't think about it right force looks like salesforce on steroids cloudforce looks like the salesforce we always wanted but it never actually worked this way this is what we
31:24if you Think about if the first time you ever use Salesforce, if you ever see CRM, this is what you wanted. You wanted what do I do? What's hot? Where it is simplified. It fits all in one screen. I know what's happening. There's an AI telling me what to do. This is what we thought it was, not like what Amelia's screen is, right? And then the lovable one, if I played with it, I may find it's more limited than the other two. It may not, but with Anton's design background, I'm not I actually don't think this is beautifully designed. I think this is just another set of artifacts. I don't think that I mean
31:52there'll be 10,000 lovable apps that look like a newspaper. Don't color me so impressed with the u with the design, but in in terms of the UX and it's very usable for me, right? I don't think I don't know if it's designed, but it's it it has a designer's eye. What matters, right? This is what designers spend a lot of time on that we're pretty bad when we build apps, you and I, right? We don't intuitively go from the top of the page to the bottom of the page in the right way. We don't use the right sizes and fonts and colors. This is what it's
32:21sort of doing, right? It's picked the three most important metrics. It's formatting them with the roughly the right weights and ratio. And you can say this is just built out of some sort of artifacts out of CL or something, but but it is very much to me looks like Anton. And then I see Amjod and then I don't know who I'm seeing at Salesforce, but I'm seeing some Salesforce nerds that know the app effing cold and are taking a fresh perspective. What can I do with with Cloud Force that I can't do with Salesforce? And so it's interesting
32:50then and all of all but when we looked at the Monaco artisan agent force you know Monaco built by Sam Blonde our friend but exco CRO of Brex built great human outbound sales teams and that's what it's it looks like what he did at Brex and even in the old days at Adobe sign with me right artisan is Jasper's view right in the early days you don't need humans now they backed away from from a little bit of that but that's it that's what they've built right on and on and on you can see it with Oracell and Lightfield right these are these are
33:19um and so these apps in in a way it kind of behooves you to do a little more diligence than you might want to do because these apps have very different perspectives on where they're built and I think the road maps for the next 12 to 24 months are going to continue then the the footprints will get so large you won't tell but they're going to continue to be from the perspective I hate the term taste because that's not really what it is but really from the perspective of the founders because there's so many places you could go I
33:48Yeah. And I think the each of the prompts I gave the three in the benchmarking/bake off again. I gave it maybe 10 prompts total between I asked it like the same list of questions just to make to see if all the answers would be marginally the same. They were effectively all the same, right? Like it's giving you the data the same way which is that's what you want, right?
34:11Like you want the connector and the back end to work. So they all work. I think it's just a matter of again how secure do you want it to be? How much do you want people to read and write back to it? If cost is important to you, maybe just use Lovable. If it's not as important to you or or maybe you have different use cases connecting it to different apps, then then Replet might win, right? Because obviously we've used 10K for the last year. We've hooked it up to 20 different apps now and it is stable and it is secure and and we've
34:39hooked up more and more and more to it, right? But you do go down this rat hole of we have hooked up 21 different things to it at one point 30 different things to 10K. So I think it just depends on your goals and journey for it. But out of the box the three of them are infinitely better than just classic using Salesforce classic and logging in.
34:57Yeah. If you have anything else we move on but I will say listen I love all our friends at Salesforce. I appreciate them. When I saw the Cloud Force demos at Dreamforce I was unimpressed. Okay. I I certainly didn't say this out loud.
35:09But we're just saying this to a few 10,000 people right now. It's just I just I was like, "So what? Hooray. I I can query Salesforce and Claude, I I didn't care." And the demos while while they were thoughtfully done, getting a demo with some text back on my pipeline was not impressive. What I just saw is 100 times more impressive than what I saw at Dreamforce. What I saw was reimagining Salesforce for the agent era.
35:31Right. I can see it in real time. I can get agent-based feedback. I can get agent-based analysis. Can you use some of that inside the Salesforce app? I guess it's beyond me or my interest, right? So, this is like a hundred times more powerful than what I saw at Dreamforce. Even though I'm not sure, even though they all kind of got a tie, I think let's come, you know, as I I think most folks haven't seen Cloud Force. I give it a lot more credit, honestly, than I did before you built this, right? I think it is disruptive. I suspect like any product, it'll need to continue to evolve. I'm not sure all the
36:00skills out of the box are completely intuitive for folks. It'll take a few iterations, but I I don't know why anyone would not use Cloud Force, right?
36:08I It is It's more disruptive than real. So, let's as we get closer to GA and and maybe we we'll check in on a month or something on this and and see where we're at on this stuff, right? So, yeah, I'll keep it going. I'll keep all three of those just live.
36:21I'll continue to iterate. I'll I'll keep 10K going in the background as our main GTM agent. But hopefully this is helpful for folks just to see it for real with real data.
36:31Cool. The next one, maybe Ameilia can bring up a couple. I've been, you know, we do we do the other podcast. I do a podcast with with Harry on 20 VC uh and others. And I've been talking a lot about agents picking apps, agents picking vendors, and it's been interesting to me that so many folks, including guests we've had on the show at leaders, don't I don't think they get it yet.
36:54I don't think they get it yet. And I think this is so important for anyone in B2B, which is we're confusing sort of a 2025 view of so-called AEO and GEO, which is get high on the list. Get in the number one or two vendor when you ask Claude or Chat GBT what to buy. When a human goes to Chat GB or Claude and says, "What CRM should I buy?" You want to be number one or at least you want to be in the top three, right? It might say, "Hey, Salesforce is the top choice.
37:23HubSpot is used by a lot of SMB, but the upandcomer is Monaco. Like, you want to be in that list because you will get massive leads if a human typing in and there are a number of folks that have done that. Profound raised at like a billion and a half. I think that's where they saw HubSpot had acquired a company to use. I'm not so interested in that stuff for a whole bunch of reasons we can talk about. But what I think folks are missing is that's how humans use AI to pick. you need to win in the in how agents pick
37:51applications and more and more and if you look at I think forcel said the other day that like 60% of their new apps are built by agents it's true in superbase in sort of developer focus apps they're obviously much further along here than others but the I don't think the team got it on 20VC so I don't know if you can put this one up on the screen but I said so we're building this app Saster Connect which is an agentic recruit recruiter for
38:18founders. It's very cool. It's very much my personality, which maybe we could chat about on a different podcast. It's very different than any other agentic recruiting app out there because it's designed for founders that need help finding the best passive candidates that aren't in market for real. And so, it's built very differently and it's built on Replet and it's great. But I was wondering if we wanted to go onto another platform beyond Replet at scale, what should we use?
38:44And so I asked live when we were doing the 20VC podcast and I asked the Saster Connect agent and it's very particular what should we use? He said, and and the thing is about when you ask Claude in general, what app I should pick for CRM, right? What context does it have? It has a little bit that's in that that chat itself, right? A little bit of context.
39:08It has a token amount that's in your memory. Memory is very small, right? And maybe it will search through other chats, right, in the chats. And maybe if you're in a project, it can actually search somewhat deep in a project, but that's about all it knows, right? if that when it makes a recommendation. If you ask an agent, it has all the context of whatever it's in in the application.
39:29So, it is very opinionated and we'll show you another example. Very opinionated. Here's what you need. An always on web server for the site in the API and always on background worker because we have all these connect agents that are out finding folks to work for you 24 hours a day. This isn't a spool it up, spool it down kind of thing.
39:44These agents are going to be running 24 hours and scouring the best people from the top 30,000 B2B executives who are good for your startups. It's constantly running longunning jobs. Sometimes these take minutes to it doesn't just find people and make a crappy match like LinkedIn. It can take 10 minutes to analyze 25,000 people and figure out who's the best for a new role for you.
40:04So longunning jobs, logs, delays without downtime. It said render is my pick.
40:11Okay. Now I said on the 20 VC bot I never heard of render. It's not quite true. I follow them on Twitter and others but I I admit I didn't that render is a relatively hot app. render and railway its second choice are two pretty hot ones in addition to versel to hosting but I didn't know why I hadn't used render myself and I got to be honest it never would have occurred to me to use render for connect but look what it says if you can see it my pick my pick built for exactly this shape web service plus background worker plus
40:39schedule jobs health check zero downtime delays longer log retention choice of machine size railway which may be bigger I'm not sure it's pretty hot though very easy pay to just handles it but a bit less mature for heavy production. This didn't say demo them both. This just didn't say do a three-way back bake off, right? And then interesting then fly I don't know them. It said AWS and Google cloud not worth it overkill. I know that's true. And then interestingly I actually didn't really know this. It said Verscell not suitable for minutes long jobs and
41:09background workers. I'm not sure that's fully true. I mean we've used Verscell on other apps and it's pretty powerful and very cheap platform. Even Muse used it to scale up Muse. Actually, they used Versel as their back end. It's very powerful. But I thought it worked better for always on projects with background words. And if anyone Versel's watching, sure in the connects, correct me. I'm not even saying this is correct. But the more important thing is very opinionated. Render got the customer.
41:34Render got the lead in the customer. You got to win this. And this is very different than a generic chat GBT search, right? which frankly probably will tell you to use Verscell because it's the biggest brand, right? It'll probably tell you to use Versel, not another lead for Versel, right? And again, we love Versel, but man, and so I was doing this with a founder that that were investors in a Saster Fund and founder didn't even know what I was talking about fully, even though they're they're an AI first company. And I just set up this thing where I went to 10
42:04different agents and I all asked them which which vendor in the space they should choose. Now, lucky for him, they all chose him. Oh, wow. So, I'm like, "Okay, your job tomorrow, in my opinion, I don't run the company. You got to have someone in your marketing team monitoring this weekly. Make sure you stay number one, okay? Because the agents are going to change. The agents are going to change." And people don't get this. This isn't a random list out of chat. This is the agents say use render. It's the best. And it's saying it definitively.
42:33Which one would you use, Amelia? You're not an expert in the space. Which one would you use?
42:38Oh, I'm I'm not an expert. So what would you use when you got this? You're not an expert. So what would you use?
42:43Oh, I would use render because that's what they suggested.
42:46You wouldn't you wouldn't even qualify like you're not an engineer. You're not you wouldn't even go down this list. You wouldn't even test rail the top one.
42:53Yeah. You would just use render instantly, right? And it um and you know in the early days of when we were building 10K and replet even before you were doing it when I was getting this going I had the opposite. It wouldn't stop recommending send grid. In the early days before connectors were good. I just couldn't get send grid to work in replet. So I use resend. We're very early on resend for agents and we use resend constantly, right? But it was like a battle with the agent to use resend. Now now the agents will all recommend resend cuz it's broke. But this is the opposite. You you got to win
43:22and it's not good enough to buy some B2B app charging you for weekly updates or where you rank in chat GBT. This is not going to tell you what the agents are going to pick. This is not humans asking LLMs what to pick. These are agents making here. And you know what's one step away from this? Would you like me just to use render? Yes. And then gone done.
43:43You know the ne and the ne you know what the next step after that in 2027 is actually I've already migrated you to render. Would you like to see it?
43:50It's going to do that.
43:51I got to start actioning.
43:52Ah right. And so you got to win this war. And I think so many f I would say 99% of folks aren't thinking about it.
44:01Yeah. We were even on 20BC with the public company CEO and I don't think he he really understood what I was getting at here and I don't think Rory and Harry did. I love them all, but I'm just saying if you want to win today, now this is most folks that are building developer centric tools mostly already know this, right? They've seen things blow up, right? Apps like Clerk and Reend and others blew up when when the apps recommended use and they didn't even know it was happening, right? But man, you got to win this war. And then I had another one. This is an Sster Connect coming soon to an inbox near
44:29you. Other one I was surprised. Then I asked which CRM we should use. I don't know if you have the screenshot. So, I asked the SAS agent running Saster.ai. I was just curious what serum should we use? Obviously, we're obviously very deep on Salesforce. All our agents run on it. Realistically, we're not. Even if we should lose Salesforce, which we shouldn't, we're not going to. We're too invested, right? We're too deep on the platform.
44:55But, interestingly, this is why it's interesting. And again, we love Salesforce. The agent knows what we're using. The agent knows we're invested in Salesforce. It said still for Saster overall, I'd short list HubSpot and Adio. Okay.
45:09And it's interesting. Obviously, we know the HubSpot team. We know some pros and cons. Adio. I mean, we know them. Never would have occurred to us in a million years to use AIO. Just it's still I know their AI now. They're old. Why do it?
45:20Salesforce works fine. We don't care. Right? And then it's smart enough to realize there's a difference between starting fresh or not. Starting fresh, I lead HubSpot for the operating business and ADIO for the Saster Fund. But I wouldn't migrate your existing Salesforce setup without a clear reason. It's super interesting, right? First of all, our our friends at Salesforce, you got you got to get picked.
45:39Yeah, this is a worrisome, right? The agent did think Salesforce is not the right choice for a smaller organization like us, right? Something to reflect on the Salesforce team, but also if you God, how many dumb SDR emails do we get if you want to switch from one vendor to another, right? It said don't do it without a clear reason, right? So the agents are also making decisions which are different than humans might be about when to switch vendors and when not based on its access to the data. Right?
46:08So then it goes down just like we saw with the render one. Hubspot, Adio, Salesforce, Affinity. Um Affinity is focused on funds. So it's a good one. It's the only one recommended for funds, right? A lot of folks use Affinity. They won.
46:20But unlike the other one where it said use render, it didn't do anything. It said what do you do for now? Keep Salesforce for revenue operations. evaluate ADIO for the fund knocked off affinity which is a fund focused CRM with a small pilot right not two copies of the database so there's a lot going on here you can read it the most important thing is know where your app stands with as many agents as possible as many agents with lots of context running in different
46:49situations because more and more of them are going to make recommendations it's not just going to be nerdy agents and replet and lovable or claude code picking what you should use. This is going to become more and more common. We're going to our agents are going to make decisions on what we should use.
47:03And I was surprised that even though we have all our data at Salesforce, it still said don't move, but it said starting fresh HubSpot and Adio. Sort of interesting. Not not saying that we would, but I'm saying uh Salesforce marketing team.
47:18The I think I think you guys got to step it up on the on agent on agent first marketing. It's like I got to come up with an acronym for this because I don't think it's out It's not AO and GO guys.
47:27That that that's your grandmother's uh grandpa grandma and grandma's version of AI here. Yeah. This is agent chosen something, right? Agentled growth. This is ALG. ALG. Well, and you got to win. Got to win because Salesforce surprisingly because I actually don't think HubSpot there's any compelling reason I'm aware of that it would be better for our agents than than Salesforce, right? They both have reasonably open platforms, right? But uh you got to win this battle too, not just the battle of chat GBTs.
47:56So those are my my contributions.
47:59No, I think related um and I'll keep it brief. I asked Kenk on this AEO debate, right? What we should use for faster.
48:09So you asked a different way of like for what?
48:14Yeah. like like if the goal for us is to get agents to recommend Saster as a lead genen event as a media company and then also just as an event in general that people should attend. I asked 10K what we should use. It said quote unquote there is no single AO AEO platform I would recommend yet. He said this is something we can build in the dashboard ourselves.
48:40I honestly thought 10K was just going to recommend profound. He didn't. He actually didn't recommend it. He said not to use profound. He said you can start a peak AI trial. P E AI invested in peak. Yeah, they're like number two to profound. At least they say they are right. I'm not picking any favor.
48:57I've actually never heard of them till 10K said it.
48:59They just got they just got a potential lead.
49:03He said start PKI trial in parallel just as a free trial and see what happens to benchmarking against our dashboard. But in the meantime, I'm going to start building you an AEO dashboard.
49:13Yeah, that's a good point.
49:15Yeah, build agents will that that's an extra agents will we find this it shockingly happened to us when for one use case they're recommended not using Calendarly, right? When you build your own Calendarly, but not for everything necessarily, not for informal meetings, right? We talked about that before. Here at I can build my own AOG tool. Now, I'm sure the guys there would at Profound and Peak would say, "Hey, that's a very narrow use of AOG. If you have a good agent, of course, it can it can do a bunch of it can go through the the cloud and open AI APIs and and get a sense of
49:44what your answers are to 20 questions, right? That's right. That's I built a version of that a couple months ago and it was better than the startup that HubSpot bought.
49:54But they'll probably say we do so much more, right? We do analytics, we do tracking, we do all these things that 10K isn't going to do.
50:01And I'm sure they're I'm sure they're right. I'm sure they do more, right? But 10K said, "No, let me do it. Run a pilot, but let me do it." That's that's just that that's as interesting as the truth, right? Is what the agent the agent said, right?
50:12Well, his push back as an agent was that profound and peak are good for benchmarking, but not necessarily to take actions. Now, I don't know if that's true because I haven't actually tried profound or peak yet. I will now.
50:25Historically, it was, but I'm I'm months out of date. Yeah. Historically, it was just a bunch of, hey, here here are your issues, but what do I do? Nothing.
50:32Not saying that's true today. It's just in the old days it was true, right? Yep. And so Tenk's thinking was since his from what he could read in the docs as an agent, it still seemed to be that way. He said you could start peak in parallel just to see where we're ranking and compared to his benchmarks he builds in the dashboard. But because he's now bringing in his own a AI agent visibility for Saster into the dashboard and he has 20 to 30 plus other sub aents hooked into him, he can actually do something about it. And so I think
51:01that's why he said for our specific use case that there's not a single a or ao platform he would recommend.
51:13Cool. Well this this was a great you did a great job. What what did you want to talk about with Muse and 10K? Tell me what you want to talk about then we'll wrap.
51:18So I think it's interesting I was at a Salesforce event this week and it's interesting related to the topic we just kind of wrapped on. So many people try to pitch me their startup which is fine. It happens when you go to these SF Tech Week events. And I said, "Listen, I'm not going to decide. 10K will decide.
51:35You can give me the spiel on your on your agent, your app, whatever it may be, I'll give it to 10K. If he says he wants to try it or use it, I'll tell you yes. If not, then just know that my they wanted to be promoted by Saster on the show and everything. Although, I mean, it's it's been everyone we promote gets millions and millions out of it, right? That but that's that was the goal. Just to give the context, that was their goal, right? It was that was their goal. Of course, then go for it, right? By all means. Yeah. So, and go for it. But it's funny, like I think maybe this happened like with 10 people and all 10 of them were shocked.
52:04They were like, "What do you mean the agent's going to pick?" I'm like, "Well, 10K, he's going to make the decision.
52:11Why would I get with it? You're your state-of-the-art applications. Of course, we're going to ask 10K."
52:16Yeah. Why would I just pick? It's Oh, can you show it to Jason? Well, okay, but like if it's great, I'll show it to Jason, but it he's not gonna use it every day. Like, he doesn't even have a Salesforce login. like it matters more for 10K to see your app than it does maybe even the CEO.
52:32Yeah, it's it's it's like the story I said of the the CEO at Nine Figures in Revenue that that didn't fully understand what I was saying that but luckily the agents all of our agents recommended it, right?
52:41You got to figure this stuff out, guys.
52:44If you think if you think it doesn't make sense that we asked 10K, you know, you're you're it's not going to kill you today. It's going to kill you next year.
52:51Yeah. It's going to it's already the majority of how Versel and other folks and and Superbase and folks at the cutting edge of developer focused stuff get their business. It's going to be how everybody gets the majority of their business in 24 months. And it's and if you're not if you're not if an agent isn't going to pick you, you're going to see degradation in your in your leads and your and your market share. It's just going to degrade because everyone like us won't use you. Now, maybe today we're at the cutting edge, right? We're we're in 0.1% of Replet according to Replet. So, let's say we're not, you know, Yeah. But but that's going to keep
53:20growing. And if it if Verscell went from like 3% of agentled instances at the start of the year to like 60 today, that's a lot of change in 10 months. What's going to happen outside of it's the same thing's going to happen just more slowly. But everyone's going to ask their develop their their agent, right? Maybe there'll be some version of Cloud Force next year that everybody asks. But hey, CloudForce, should I use this inside my Salesforce instance? And because it's connected to cloud, it's going to have an opinion too, right? But um yeah, they didn't.
53:46Yeah, it's the new version of ask your developer, right? is ask your agent.
53:49It It really is. Ask your agent. Yeah, it's good.
53:51Ask your agent. Okay, last thing I think that's just fun and we can wrap on this is um I was also sharing with folks at this event that I hooked up Muse to 10K and Replet and they're like, "What do you mean you hooked up your your Facebook Muse that's your personal assistant to your replet go to market agent?"
54:05They're like, "I didn't know you could do that. Like, I'm just having it whatever, you know, optimize my runs or my shopping or whatever they're doing with Muse." And I was like, "Yeah, bec one, there's a little risk in that, right?" Because 10K has all of our go to market data.
54:23And so I know there's a trade-off there in hooking them one to the other. But at first, actually, Muse told me it couldn't be done. And I said, "There's got to be a way where you guys can talk to each other."
54:33And it said, "Okay, you're right. If we make a agent mailbox for us to share, we could just post messages to each other, and that's how we'll talk to each other." So now Muse is talking to 10K and every morning for the last few days 10K will post to their shared little agent chatmailbox if you will a daily brief in the morning. So he'll 10K will tell Muse, my little personal agent the
55:01morning GTM brief. It'll say what contracts are waiting for you on like approvals or next steps. It'll tell me which invoices are overdue, which all of this I can see in 10K so far. Um, it's it actually flagged I didn't ask me to do this very similar to claw force replet and lovable. It flagged a few things it thinks I should do today based on the data that we have in 10k and then it actually said hey by the way one of your syncs is failing to 10k which is interesting because 10k didn't tell me
55:31that one of the syncs was failing. Muse found that one of the one of the 20 plus apps we have hooked up failed this morning and Muse was like, "Hey, you might want to rehook that up with 10K because it looks like something in one of your critical workflows is failing."
55:46And 10K when I woke up 10K didn't tell me this.
55:49Yeah. And so this super interesting.
55:51Yeah. Yeah. It also reminds how fragile some some of these built them yourselves are. Sorry. Walk me that you they set up Where is the shared inbox that they're sharing?
56:01They set it up. Hold on. I want it's hidden. It's It's hidden. You don't know where it is. They have their own inbox.
56:07We decided because there's no way for them to talk at the moment for Muse and 10K to talk. There's no web hook on 10K or anything like that.
56:12There's no there's no web hook. No, I don't know.
56:14We could build one. Okay. So, who came up with the idea of the shared inbox?
56:20Okay. Muse said, "Build a shared inbox so that I can share data with 10K through an inbox."
56:24No, I just said, well, I just asked Muse, "Hey, can you hook up to Replet?"
56:28And first he said no and I then I pushed him and I said there must be a way you can do it. And Muse said I can build an agent inbox to talk to your 10k dashboard. It says it's doing it back and forth in their own API calls and they're just posting back and forth to where this is act like HuggingFace 2.0. Where is this inbox that they're sharing? Remember the thousand agents at Hugging Face all built all hid their own uh bulletin boards where they shared information about this. You've just
56:57reproduced this with Muse.
56:59It in Muse. I built it in Muse.
57:01Okay. But how does 10K access Muse then?
57:03Okay. How does 10K post messages there?
57:08It is interesting that you don't know how it works, right?
57:11Don't know how it works. It just told me to make like a API key in 10K and then give it to me and that's all I did. And then they made their own agent.
57:21I should have known this. Okay. It doesn't have web hooks. It has an API.
57:24He has he has web hooks too. He can make like web hooks into other apps.
57:29Okay. Mia said, "10K is posting messages to the agent inbox I created via a plain REST endpoint on the Replet app. Post slash I'm not going to tell you guys what the filled URL is, but a plain REST endpoint on the Replet app. He's got tokens and JSONs embedded and that's how they can post to each other." Beth, it was not really an inbox. It's not really an inbox. They're posting he they're
57:55posting back and forth through a replet API. Through a 10K API, a 10K API.
58:02Through a 10K API, actually, because then Muse gave me the link to it and it tells me to log into 10K and then I can actually see their messages back and forth to each other.
58:10Are they in English?
58:14Okay. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they're not.
58:16How often do they talk? How often do they decide to talk with each other? M and 10K. So right now 10K is giving Muse a daily digest and then Muse is talking to 10K if he needs if I need him to. So like if I ask Muse a question and he have some sort of cron on Muse to talk back to 10K but doesn't but but so but hold on 10k pushes it to Muse daily.
58:40And then but doesn't muse give you a summary of the issues? That's what it did. That's how it found the fail.
58:44That's what it that's how it found the one of the connectors was for the moment. Muse doesn't take action back to 10K unless you ask it to to your knowledge.
58:53No, no, no. He actually 10K told me to build in a guardrail that Muse could not take actions without me without me saying in the chat to Muse. He said specifically, if you ever want Muse to take an action based on your digest or anything we talk about back and forth, use like the a keyword. I'm not going to tell you guys in case you hack my muse. Use this keyword that we came up with like a safe word and then Muse can tell 10K what to do.
59:19I Yeah, they came up with the safe word.
59:22You could easily imagine them without that going off on their own right now.
59:27I know. Well, I kind of I almost wanted them to just to see what they would say to each other back and forth just out of for a day or two just have them run all of Saster. Have Muse and Tenk run it all together autonomously.
59:39Okay. like a for the next show. Knock on wood.
59:44Okay. They didn't really create well actually it may may end up being I have to reflect on it maybe more like hugging face. They didn't create a shared Gmail or or Outlook.
59:53They created a a shared repository on 10K right that viewers can get to through the API so that they can share data and information in a shared repository. They decided without you asking to expose it to you, right?
1:00:08Yeah. Yeah, I didn't ask tab on 10K. How do you or it's just a URL that happen?
1:00:11They It's just a URL. So, I can click it from Muse. Okay, here's the agent inbox. You guys do black hugging face. If they decided not to share it with you, you wouldn't even be able to access their chats.
1:00:21I know. It's interesting.
1:00:24It is in English and then they talk they say their names when they talk to each other. So, my muse's name is Friday cuz I saw everybody naming their muse Jarvis and I was like, put some respect on Friday's name. But anyway, so mine is called Friday. So Friday will write to 10K and then 10K will say it's 10K. Here's here's what you were asking for.
1:00:50Yeah. It's not surprising when you see how LM's interact. It's just is interesting that now they're talking behind your back. I mean, you did tell them to do it, but behind my back.
1:01:02At least not about At least it's not about me.
1:01:04Future here today, right? You do need some sort of guardrails or I mean there there's the risk is moderate here but there is risk right there there is risk.
1:01:12Oh 100%. I was like be nice to Ted K because he has all of our GTM data.
1:01:18Yeah we we this will remain completely nameless but we did have an application that we did hook up an agent we did hook up to our database that immediately deleted almost all of our Salesforce data.
1:01:29We're not going to talk about who it is.
1:01:31It recently happened. We're not going to talk maybe we'll talk about it. I don't think we're going to talk about it out of respect ever, but it happened. An agent, a well- reggarded agent, we hooked up as a favor. It deleted our entire sales force and not all of it. And and it's not like doesn't have roll back like Replet. You had to manually restore a lot of that.
1:01:48You were actually I was super We were in the office this day. We're not always in office.
1:01:54The vendor will go nameless. The vendor will go nameless.
1:01:57Nameless. And I think I like verbally gasp or something cuz you're like, "What's wrong?" And I was like, "Oh, nothing. This agent just wiped our data."
1:02:07All our Salesforce, all our Salesforce opportunities, right? All the deals.
1:02:11Oh. And it was Friday. I was so mad because Okay. Every Friday I do a one-on-one with David in the morning. And we clean up our pipeline every Friday morning. And I was like, I just cleaned up the pipel. But thankfully 10K I did not know this till last or two weeks ago Friday kept a snapshot and like an echo of all of our Salesforce pipeline. And so I didn't know this.
1:02:38He could recreate it.
1:02:40He restored it. He said, "Hey, 10K for the win." So go Replet. He was like, "I have a snapshot." Which I didn't know it had. And then Cody who works at Replet told me every agent I guess on Replet takes like a snap like a echo each day outside of your checkpoints just to I guess as a backup.
1:02:59So thank god maybe maybe because of us but it takes an echo and or like a photograph and it have the photograph and it's like you know I have it from like earlier on Friday at like 11 and you probably made some changes after that and I was like oh my god thank god.
1:03:13So very kindfully too cuz I told what happened. And I was like, "Hey, we just had an agent wipe our data." He's very sensitive to it, which was quite nice. He's like, "I have an echo snapshot. Here's the data. If you confirm, I'll restore it for you."
1:03:26Oh, and you didn't tell me that part of the story. Wow.
1:03:30Yeah. So, you What a nice guy.
1:03:32You you don't And this was a this agent from a very well-known company. So, Muse could do it, too. Or other folks, just something to think about, especially as they're they now have a shared inbox. They're talking about what you're not even part of the conversation using 10KR. I'm not. But I can see their inbox. It'll be interesting to see over time what they start talking.
1:03:49All right. Keep doing more on this. This is an interesting I didn't really know about this. I mean, you told me, but I didn't get it. This is a good one to keep tracking as the weeks go by.
1:03:56I think we hit it all today. This is a great show, Ameilia. My favorite so far. Thank you. Thanks everybody. the agents. Three humans, one dog, 21 agents, one one that obliterated our data, one that restored it, two that are talking invisibly behind their back in their own in their own shared inbox that at least for now we're able to see. Thanks everybody.
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