0:00Today, I want to welcome Paul Graham. He is a growth strategist with EG Capital Holdings. He's also a serial entrepreneur, tax strategist, and author who helps investors and business owners scale wealth, cut tax burden, and build something that matters.
0:19I tell you what, I can't think of anything more that most business owners want to build other than something that matters, something that lives beyond themselves. Uh over the last 10 years, Paul Paul has co-founded and exited AI-driven SaaS company and a service company. He's advised Fortune 500 uh fintech firms. And he was a managing partner for an oil and gas asset management working uh working alongside high-net-worth investors and family offices.
0:51Craig, it's great to be here, especially on a not nice hot Austin day.
0:55Yeah, yes. So, yeah, so we're we're we're in Austin basically off the same road, probably 30 minutes apart or so. Um but uh yeah, it's you know, it's been a weird year in Austin. It's I've been here 22 years, and this is the most humid year I remember.
1:17I uh I remember a couple years ago where it was supposed to be like 100 days of over 100. And I was like, oh, okay, sounds good. And this might be every year, but it's just like short-term, you know, memory with some of this. And it's like, okay. And I remember there were times where it was like, oh, no, no, it's still over 100. Oh, it's still like this hot, this humid. Um truly, I grew up in Colorado, and I didn't look at the weather. Like, I'm not good at looking at the weather cuz it changed all the time. And so, yes, it might be humid today, it might be humid tomorrow, but
1:45I'll be like, yeah, it's nice out. Like, you know, let me just maybe not go out in the sun for as long or things like that. Um so, I really just enjoy every day I can, um especially the days I'm on boats, so.
1:59Do you, uh, on the boats, you go out Lake Travis or I whichever one's open, right? Uh, we had, you know, additional rain come through, right? So, that changed things.
2:08Um, but, yeah, mainly Travis, um, not as much Lake Austin. Um, truly I'm there's no discrepancy on on which lake, um, you know, I'm open to going. Lakes I I I don't want to say lakes are lakes because that's not the case. Again, in Colorado, there are some lakes that are just like not ideal. Um, but the lakes here in Texas specifically are incredible. Uh, I have a short-term rental, a couple short-term rentals I own, but one of them's also in Canyon Lake, and that's beautiful water. It's,
2:37I believe, one of the only two clear water lakes in Texas besides Possum Kingdom. Um, and so, yeah. All lakes in Texas, I I think are good lakes. So, very happy for any of them.
2:51Well, and I know Canyon Lake's been running really low for a number of years, and I think they just got filled up for the first time in a while.
2:58Yeah, they got filled up, and, um, I I think there were some areas that, yeah, got like over flooded or also had some, you know, issues, too, especially like, you know, downstream. Um, my property's on the, uh, south side, um, you know, about a maybe like a half mile or so from, um, several different boat ramps, and so, there was no impact, right? But definitely along the riverside, you know, I believe there were issues, um, that people had, but, um, you know, it's, uh, um,
3:27unfortunate also just it's kind of what you get, um, for the longest time in Austin, right? People didn't have lake houses, they just had, you know, a barren lake bed, you know, behind their house, right? And they just had a house.
3:39Um, and so, you know, with the additional rain, they now have a lake house. Um, I forget how much the water rose specifically like Lake Austin, Lake Travis kind of area, but I mean, I think it was like 20, maybe 50 ft, like it was it was substantial. So, um very thankful for uh for rain.
3:57So, I did a calculation at one point. Uh Lake Travis ended up being about 3 and 1/2 ft above full.
4:03And I'm downstream, and I was trying to figure out how much water they were about to send my way. That 3 and 1/2 ft represent 22 billion gallons of water. That were all headed my way. And then and obviously there was a lot more. Uh we now have I I'm right next to the Colorado River. My neighborhood is.
4:22And um we now have a beach. We have a outright beach that wasn't there a month ago. And so, all that sand that just came downriver towards us.
4:33Man, I mean it's positive it's the it's the silver lining of sorts.
4:38No. Oh, yeah. No, I'm I'm loving it. You said something in the green room that uh struck me. You said you've not you not have one concussion or two concussions.
4:50You've had seven. Is that right?
4:53Yeah, and even as I was saying it, I was like, there's a notepad on my computer of me noting like, you know, how many and and sort of which ones, um you know, what they were about. But, yeah, I mean, it's just been a combination of, if you will, series of unfortunate events. Um you know, I wouldn't say I'm super extreme within sports or risk-taking. I'm more of a calculated risk type of person. Um and even this idea of like, you know, risk is just not knowing the inputs and not controlling the outcome.
5:23As we think about maybe like a wealth management or or business sort of perspective. Um but, yeah, I mean, there were two specifically that uh you know, really changed how I view, you know, I I view myself, what I maybe think of the world, or yeah, different things that have come up. Um but, yeah, it's just kind of been a little bit of uh my story. So.
5:45Well, what caused them? Or at least what's What are the most interesting concussions? What happened?
5:52Most interesting concussion, um I'll start with I slipped on black ice maybe when I was like in third grade. Um went to the um nurse basically and I was in the grand scheme of things fine, but I was smart and I realized that like, oh hey, if I just said one or two words, I could go home for the day.
6:14Um so it wasn't um you know bad or terrible. I I was pretty, you know, conscious with everything. Um but you know, just kind of recognized that and so especially being in Colorado, noticing that just because, you know, you'd see ground it doesn't mean there's not ice on it.
6:30Um and so being aware of of that. Um I'd say the most notable one uh was I was snowboarding. Um probably should have not gotten an additional run and I was wearing a helmet, but I, you know, hit my head when I fell back. Um knocked unconscious for about 20 minutes. Um had friends there at the time and I was just like, hey, my head hurts. I'm just going to like hang out here.
6:51They're both lifeguards um and they're just like, okay. So ski patrol came and all this stuff. Hey, we'll let you down the mountain. Like I mean, okay. Um and I distinctly remember hey, asking like, hey, what side are you going to be on cuz as you go down like your head's to one side, right? You know, if I have any problems or questions or whatnot. And um yeah, my friends later were like teasing me. They're like, dude, like like what It's like that is a legitimate question in a you know in in an issue, right? Um so those are the most like notable and I
7:20would say the the one that was like the most and I was trying to think of like, do I use the word fun? Um but unique I would say by far and away. Um I played lacrosse for most of um adolescent youth. Little bit of soccer, too. But I was at a lacrosse training camp um and there were some uh Major League Lacrosse players there. You know, shooting really fast um trying to see how fast they could shoot the ball.
7:43Everyone was sitting down and I was like, I'm going to stand up so I can see this. Um well, one of the guys ripped it off the pipe, hit 96 miles an hour, went straight to my noggin on the left side. Um I don't know if I like turned around and then fell down.
7:57Um but, you know, that was uh definitely one um that was uh more public and sort of like seen sort of thing. Um wasn't able to finish the camp and all these things, right? But then the next year I came to camp and it's like, "Hey, if you're going to be shooting, you have to wear a helmet."
8:12Everyone's like, "This sucks. This is stupid. Like, why is this?" It's like, "Oh, I heard someone got hurt." It's like, I mean, someone did get injured, yes. They're okay, but yeah. So, um you know, just random things of life that have uh come to be um through just living. So, yeah.
8:31You know, one of the things I saw that was interesting is uh you know, you've done a number of things, had multiple accidents.
8:40And but way back in your history, you you worked for Enterprise.
8:48And and I know they have a really rigorous you know, they have a specific formula about who they bring on and what they expect. Uh what was that like?
8:58So, um for context, that was my [snorts] uh junior year of college. Um and my freshman year of college, I ran a residential painting business, right? Um and mainly exterior uh for about 2 years. And so, I had a lot of like the trades and qualities they were looking for. They came to um Enterprise came to, you know, school to, you know, share about, you know, what's life like, how they, you know, train and think, all
9:26these things, right? Um and so, just the backstory is to say like what that was like was taking initiative. And how I got that opportunity is Ian um was a local manager at the time and I was just like, "Hey, like I want to do something like this. When can I do this? I don't graduate for another year, year and a half." I ended up graduating a semester early. Um, what opportunities do you have for me right now, right? Hey, you know, when it's your junior year, let's let's talk. I had an internship that kind of fell out, fell through for the
9:56summer and I was like, "Forget this. I want to do this." You know, email, talk to him, whatever. Um, and lo and behold, I had, um, clicked some wrong button or something like that, you know, whatever. Um, but eventually, um, was actually hired as, not necessarily like an MT, but it was like a client services associate, where basically I would had like the similar, I had the exact same like responsibilities.
10:21Um, there just wasn't like, um, fireable, uh, thresholds that I had to hit. Um, and so it was incredible to be able to see how how you can be thrown into a fire that has really good systems, as opposed to, if you will, sometimes, if you've had jobs and they're just like, "Hey, go do this stuff, right?" And you're just like, "Okay, but how or what or what's the definition of good?" All these things.
10:45And so it was fascinating to be able to be thrown in and be like, "Great. Welcome. Pick up the phone." And it's like, "To I okay, hello." Um, type thing. Um, and just be around that sort of environment, people, that level of service.
11:00Um, you know, it was five stars or nothing from, you know, customers. Um, and um, I mean, in some ways going out of your way, um, but also fulfilling on what you said you were going to do, right? So, Enterprise has a slogan of like, "We'll pick you up." Um, and so some people would drop their cars off at 6:50 p.m.
11:19when the store closes at 7:00. They're like, "Hey, can you give me a ride home?" It's like, well, the slogan's not really like give you a ride home, but like we want service, like I let's, you know, see.
11:29I mean, there were times I drove like, you know, half hour, 45 minutes to get to um, someone's house, right? So my point is just like that's what it was like and that ability to have some of those traits, those mindset, that aspect, that company culture, and those systems that help facilitate that and keep that together.
11:46And people either really sink or swam and truly you know maybe they swam really well and then they got recruited to other companies. I know companies who specifically only target you know current enterprise employees because of of that. So.
12:03You know as as a business owner I think for any business owner one of the best compliments you could ever get paid is to be a target of recruiters. Yeah it's it speaks to me it says you're doing the right thing when people are targeting you for recruiting it. I remember there was a email that Steve Jobs sent the CEO of Adobe.
12:29And Steve said, you know at Apple it's been our policy to not recruit from Adobe because obviously Adobe was a strategic partner for Apple especially in the early early days. He said it's always been policy at Apple to not recruit from Adobe. But it seems like Adobe has made it a policy to recruit from us.
12:52One of us should change our policy. Who do you think that should be?
12:57And that was the entire email but you know obviously Apple was you know to be able to poach people from Apple that was a huge win. Mhm.
13:08Because of that and I think the fact that I mean Enterprise really does stand out that they've they've built a system and they've built a culture. But anyway that just caught my eye. I mean as you're telling the story I I'm really seeing your passion for entrepreneurs because you were an entrepreneur before you even graduated college.
13:30Yeah, I mean truly um as I describe it it's like I have a servant heart to help others and I do that through entrepreneurship. So when I was in third grade um I got sent to the principal's office cuz I was quote unquote selling keychains to kids in class. They were giving me 50 cents. I was going to the grocery store.
13:49I was getting them keychains. I was bringing them back. I told the principal, "I'm not selling anything. I'm just helping people." My mom said, "Hey, you know, let's not uh okay. All right, fine."
14:00Um but I mean same thing. I helped raise money for 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina. I was a kid. Um made t-shirts, made little, you know, plastic kind of wristbands, right? Um and just really found that like truly how businesses scale to the nth degree is through service. Not just heart posture, not just systems, uh but ultimately solving people's problems and that you know, each of those things too.
14:27That's how companies I've seen exponentially grow versus sales. Hey, we have really good sales, you know, program, system, you know, etc. Um it doesn't create as much world word of mouth. It doesn't, you know, all these things. And so meaning like as I've been entrepreneurial with the heart of, you know, being of service, um I've just been able to meet incredibly interesting people regardless of their net worth or company size that are, you know, truly just aligned on how can we help more customers
14:55better, right? And then there's also an a value a value exchange with that. Um and so meaning like it's also been fun, right? With business where it's like, "Oh wow, people are thanking me left and right or doing this stuff." Or people are like advocates for our product.
15:10There's a fiber internet company I worked in um outside of uh Houston for a little bit and people were so like ecstatic about the brand and the company that they would go door knock on their neighbors to say, "Hey, like you should get this. Like we need this many people to petition to come through so that we can get, you know, this fiber internet um within our, you know, street or our subdivision or whatever."
15:36Um and they would create their own t-shirts to then come to events and sometimes we'd give them t-shirts and be like, "All right, go talk to your neighbors." kind of thing. Like that level of, again, culture and ability to, you know, help serve is just something that um I've seen. I've definitely done a lot of things right. Like you shared in the intro. I've also just been curious um and I've just seized opportunity along the way.
16:00Well, one of the things you said that uh that I really liked was it's about fulfilling it's not about selling, it's about fulfilling needs. And one of my sayings is your customer needs will be fulfilled. Hopefully by you.
16:16I mean, we could think of poaching, too, right? Hey, what's another way to get customers? Hey, you're we're similar to us? Like, how's that going? Oh, it's going okay. Well, would you like to have a conversation about how it could go differently? Yeah, I'd be open to it.
16:31Well, and it's I mean, I think that's [snorts] it it's it's the key. I I I'm I'm going through a current frustration with FedEx. They um [clears throat] They And by your laugh, I guess you you you probably have had some, but they used to be such a great company. Uh and they invented a whole industry that didn't exist. Now I can't get them to deliver packages to my house. They Oh.
16:57They deliver them to another house 3 and 1/2 mi away. Oh. And they know they're doing it. Their drivers tell them they're doing it. And there's nothing I can do to get it changed. And it's infuriating. And the the impact has been not only do I not use FedEx, but I avoid uh I avoid buying from people that ship via FedEx. But, it's what you're talking about that there's a need. I have a simple need.
17:27When I order something, I want it to come to my doorstep, rather than somebody else's doorstep 3 and 1/2 mi away.
17:35It's always the same house. They always take it to the same house. Um the the guy in that house, I had a Sam's Club delivery that went there. The guy that lives in that house, when I walk up to the house to try to retrieve packages, I smell pot emanating from the house.
17:52And one time I had some food from Sam's Club delivered there, and apparently that was one day he had the munchies. He ate all my food. But, they're failing, at least for me, they're failing because they're not fulfilling the customer needs.
18:09I mean, in in the age of AI and automation, how do you get heard, right? How do you feel seen?
18:15Um how do you feel understood?
18:17Um and that is a I mean, opportunity, right? To really get customer feedback. Um and also, you know, a detriment. Now, most of my career is basically within software companies working with feedback loops, customer onboarding, you know, data intelligence, if you will, to optimize, reduce cost of acquisition, increase long lifetime value of customer, add additional products, type of thing, right?
18:43And so, that is then just to say like, especially in the age of AI and social media, like, what will the future then hold when it's like, "No, no, no, I'm having this issue." And it's like, "No, you're not having an issue." It's like, "No, I'm I am, right?" Like, imagine being a child even and being like, "Hey, like, I I need this or I want this." And it's like, not being able to um be heard or understood. Like, those emotions are core things that um beyond
19:11just go to the service of what you need, but also just a recognition of who you are as well.
19:18Yeah, and I think we I think culturally we're we're having a pandemic of aloneness.
19:25You know, I I think I think that's why OnlyFans is a successful business. Um, it's I think, you know, there's a lot of businesses where people just feel alone. And if you can make take that away you know, for your customers, take that sense away from feeling alone, from feeling unheard.
19:46That's massive. I I love love the way you're thinking about that.
19:50Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in some ways it's also just service, you know, mindset, right? Um, and just being, I mean, Paul Graham, the founder of Y Combinator, um, has an article that says, you know, do things that don't scale, right? That ability to send out personalized messages to people, right? Not just the answer isn't automate everything, if you will.
20:09Um, cuz I mean, there's different detriments to that, right? There are some things to automate, but, um, if you're talking to robots, sure. But, I mean, you're talking to people, like at some point, you know, people just want people, no matter what your product or service is. They just want that reassurance, that connection, that, you know, facilitation. Um, we weren't made to talk to robots of sorts. They help us, certainly. Um, but, you know, the generations before us didn't have it in
20:38our DNA to talk to robots, so.
20:42So, what do you do for businesses now?
20:45Yeah, so just being a serial entrepreneur, um, going through the trials and challenges of scaling my own companies, maybe getting funding, looking what M&A is, all these things, um, I now work at EG Capital Holdings, which basically helps business owners reduce taxes.
21:04Then, once that tax once those taxes are reduced, well, how can we reinvest them in the company? How could that maybe help support my personal lifestyle, um and what that, you know, really looks like. So, really it's just if someone's an entrepreneur and they're, you know, have big dreams, um and they find themselves through taxes, through um selling, or even through their own personal investments, like feeling frustrated or stuck or annoyed on getting to that next level, we basically have a team that will come with and uh
21:33help create kind of the the next season of life for you. Um there's a lot of, you know, small services that we can do, but I mean, those are the three main things that we talk to business owners on, reducing taxes, optimizing your personal investments, and ensuring, you know, when you're looking to to sell or even, you know, the the age-old uh pass, right? When you're looking to pass, we also do estate planning to ensure that your business and personal entities and the whole ecosystem are
22:02aligned. So, it's kind of like founder's best friend, right? As you're scaling your company, you really have people who can help you along the way.
22:11What are some common misperceptions or wrong beliefs that people have that you encounter that um that keep them from doing the things they should be doing?
22:25Um so, truly what we offer is like what's called a fractional family office service, and without going in all the detail of the different terminology of family office and all this stuff, it's really just to say like we provide a service as a team, right? As opposed to just an individual. And so, when I say the word family office, people think of, oh, a single family office who has $300 million plus. It's like, yes, that type of entity has all those people within their own company, yes.
22:54But my point is like, there is a mindset of maybe an early seven-figure business owner, sometimes eight-figure business owners as well, where it's like, "Hey, I'm not good enough. I don't deserve that. Um I can't afford that. Um I shouldn't do that yet." There's all these like limitations that they're putting on themselves, when in reality, it's like, "No, no, no, you you do need this." Um there's a uh guy in town um who has gone from one food truck to now
23:23four and is now signing his first lease for um you know, a a brick-and-mortar property. Um he's gone from zero to 2.5 million in the span of like 2 years. Um and I was talking to him about this, and he was just like, "No, my taxes are fine. My my investments are fine. Um and, you know, I don't need any family office stuff."
23:42And it's like, "You You just said you have this pain point that you're and you're do and you're unsure about this, but you also want to scale, but how Like, have you scaled a business before?
23:52I mean, not to these levels. Okay, like, what does that look like going from two to 20? Oh, you want a nine-figure valued company? Like, have you done that before?" And so, again, it's just kind of this idea and realization of like there's this, you know, proverb on um if you want to go um you know, far, like, go with others, right? Um but if you don't, like, you know, you'll you'll go alone.
24:15Um That's truly what I see is that people who go from, you know, zero to seven figures always do it themselves typically, right? They don't really have, you know, a team around them to really scale, right? They just kind of have they are are dictating the rules to other people. They aren't having other people tell them what to do. As you go to eight, but especially going eight to nine, you're hiring that CFO who's saying, "Hey, no, we need to do this."
24:41Why should we do that? Well, I've 20 years of experience. I've done this in two other companies, and I'm concerned about these two things. I think we need to do this, and we need to do this today. I actually already executed on it, and like, I'll see you in the meeting next Tuesday, right?
24:55Thanks, right? Very different scenarios, but it takes that business owner that awareness to really be like, "Hey, like they may not be the best They may not be in the best role. They may not be the best fit. They may not have the best education, best experience, all these different things, right?" But it's just are you building a business or are you helping serve more people, right? Is ultimately what I come down to. If you want to help serve more people to go from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9, here's kind of the playbook or ways to do it.
25:23Um and, you know, the ways that that we can help. But ultimately, you're the one who is helping yourself. If you're not willing to do some of these things, like your business will stay where it's at. Your personal lifestyle will stay where it's at. So.
25:40Um what are some of the top scaling Where's some of the challenges when somebody starts scaling?
25:47What are some things that they run into, you maybe business-wise, but also personally? What what do they run into I mean, I would really just say it's like the limits that we place on ourselves um for what we think is possible um and not thinking in 10x sort of results um and then also not playing to win the championship, if you will, as opposed to playing, you know, the game.
26:11Um those are I would say the main starter points because then everything else is is true, right? If you don't believe it's possible and it can be done, well, certainly it's not going to.
26:20A fish didn't climb a tree because it thought it was impossible. It did it because it had the skills, knowledge, and resources for it, too. It also had the belief that it could, right? So, as you picture just a fish climbing a tree, like it's a, you know, crazy thought, right?
26:35But that is just it had the belief and then it executed on these things.
26:40Um and so, that's really what I would say is like how business owners really kind of get stuck is first with themselves and what they believe is um and then and and even if they they it. And then it's more how does it become? Is it because of your action? Is it because of someone else's action? And kind of the idea and there's a book on this, right? But who not how. Who can help do it for you? Who can do it alongside you? Who can, you know, teach you how to do it? Um, that's just like, you know, basic principles. And then
27:09doing it and seeing what happens.
27:11Uh, kind of step two and three, right?
27:14Um, cuz it could work out better than you can imagine, right? So.
27:18Well, and I think one of the fears that people have is as they scale and they're pulling in other people, you know, they have an identity that their their fingerprint that they're trying to leave leave on the business.
27:30And I think that's the fear. How What would you say to those folks?
27:35Um, yeah, I mean, in some ways it's just like what are you optimizing for? Um, there was a gentleman I'd interviewed actually on my podcast a couple weeks ago. Um, he's had Um, he wanted to have a net worth of 40 million before he was 40, right?
27:50Um, he's had a couple exits, one of which was a $350 million exit. Um, awesome guy. Um, and he had a mentor of his who scaled a company from zero to $2 billion share this idea of, "Hey, like this isn't going to be your only company. This isn't going to be the only thing that you do."
28:09And at least for him that was true. And so that ability to really like remove not even the emotion from it, but really just the awareness of like, "Hey, there is more um, more opportunity, more connection, more possibility, potential. Um, maybe you know, you do M&A with another company." Whatever the situation is.
28:28That then means that like you're less attached to it. Um, and then there's, you know, that opportunity, that thought of maybe taking private equity injection, maybe selling, um, maybe it's, you know, hiring a CEO and you become a chief strategy officer.
28:44I've I've this firsthand where like someone hired a CEO, they went chief strategy officer, which was kind of like a just I don't know, makeshift sort of position of sorts. They really stayed in their zone of genius. That company tripled in 18 months. That person made more money than they have in their entire life. Um they still had you know, majority share equity ownership of the company. They gave the CEO, you know, cliff standards in terms of how to you know, earn equity. Um They got to spend more time with their family. They got to you know, be again
29:14more in their zone of genius. All these things, right? And they got to help more customers and clients, right? And so that just awareness on you know, hey, I could be the absolute best, but I may need not be the best to continue in this way or down this path or what would really help the business.
29:33A business is a living organism and I think that's one thing I you know, see is those that go from seven to eight or civically um or well, yeah, six to seven for sure, but then also seven to eight, they have such a chokehold and control of like, no, this is mine. I did this. It's my toy. Don't take it away.
29:51And it's like, well, what if you could share the toy with with others and and they got enjoyment from it too and you know, all these type of you know, childhood kind of thoughts if you will, right?
30:02That that is unlocking um truly what could be and not what um is cuz is has a ceiling. Could be is limitless. So that ability to change you know, mindset, perspective, strategy, all these different things I said. That's really the difference maker. Um and there's more on the other side. So it's tough letting go of control, certainly in a lot of ways. It's tough delegating in a lot of ways.
30:29But that ability is then you know, growth, right? I have nieces and nephews. I don't have children, but certainly same sort of idea. Let me delegate this out, do this, right? But also just means I would be a better leader as well. Hey, this is how you do this task. That person can then go do that task a thousand times and you don't have to think about it again, right? You can obviously see how that builds momentum.
30:49Um and the last thing I'll say on this to to finish this thought up is something that um was told to me by actually someone who lives here in Austin. He uh has been a CEO COO for about 20 years. Um you know, mainly fractional.
31:02And he's like, "I don't want to go into a company unless I have a badge or a gun." Meaning that I could go to other C-suite or employees and say, "Hey, we need these things done by this sort of day or time. Um you know, is this realistic? How can I help support? Let's get it done. Hey, we had this deadline.
31:17It didn't happen. Like, you know, why was that?" And work through that. But the idea of just like, "Let's just, you know, show up and and try." Um really just isn't something that he drives with. And that's just something I've seen too, right? Like, if you're not driving results, um then you're just participating. You're not winning. Or you're not even winning the championship as well. And so, that's an interesting thing I think of as someone's scaling, hire people and give them a, you know, badge and, you know, really authority to
31:46then say, "Hey, yes, what they say goes." Which means you got to hire really good people, right?
31:52Um but but, you know, that is then the crux. But when you do hire really good people, I mean, truly the number of billionaires that I've met, they work five, six hours a day. They have the best integrators. They have the least sense of control. Hey, what do you think should we should do? Great. They they live their lives like children being curious, you know, um having others take responsibility. Not in a bad way, but in a meaningful way, right? Making strategic decisions, thinking about things, playing, being curious. Well,
32:21what if we did this? Type curiosity, right? Richard Branson certainly changed my mind when I met him. Um and try to live some of those principles each day. It's it's tough getting out of our own way. So.
32:33Well, Paul, this is really cool. This is really interesting. Um, and I I love that what's driven you for many for throughout your life is an entrepreneurial drive and the desire to serve other entrepreneurs.
32:49How can people reach you?
32:51Um, I mean LinkedIn's a good, you know, resource. Um, I have a website called The Investor's Guide to Joy where I have a newsletter that, you know, talks about kind of what I do and what I think. Also, for those who are like looking to buy businesses as well, you know, that's a good resource. So, you should be able to find me just about any social media platform.
33:13Paul H. Graham is typically how I am online just cuz there's other Paul Grahams.
33:19But I'm in Austin, Texas and yeah, I would truly genuinely want people to just reach out even if it's just, "Hey, heard you on the show." Right? Cuz in the age of AI and, you know, social media, that ability to connect to be like, "Oh, yeah, like I listen to a lot of Craig shows." Amazing. Like, what else do you That that that's a conversation. That's a connection.
33:37That's a relationship. It's not just consumption or transactional. So.
33:43Well, cool. Well, thanks for coming on Layers and Legacies.
33:46Thanks, Craig. Appreciate the time.
