0:00So, no one would trust a video of Fort Knox anymore, [music] right? Fort Knox may as well not exist in a low trust era, but Bitcoin does. Bitcoin and crypto is what AI can't do. AI can solve partial differential equations, but it can't solve cryptographic equations, right? AI runs up against a hard wall, which is a cryptographic boundary. The boy camp test for replicants is cryptography, and it's what Bitcoin represents. [applause] How we doing?
0:33Have we had a good event? How's Bitcoin Asia?
0:37All right. So, this is the last uh session for the day and I think this is one of the most exciting ones. We have the legendary Bali Shrinasan here and uh you know we're going to get into a few different things but I just want to kick it off. Bology, walk us through network state today and and you've had a major change. Walk us through what's happening in Kazakhstan.
1:00Great. Yeah. So, um I think of you know Bitcoin as being the digital and then network state as the physical and then network school is making all of that real because Bitcoin basically it renegotiated the relationship between a citizen and the government, right?
1:16Seizure is no longer feasible. The 20th century of fiat seizure is ending. And so now you can choose where you want to work, where you want to live. Okay, but where do you where do you go? And I think it's not just sovereign individual, but sovereign collective.
1:28It's a community. You know, you couldn't have done this amazing conference with just yourself. You need to work in a group. Bitcoin couldn't be built by just an individual. Needs a group. And I think the physical world is the same thing. So network school takes Bitcoin's, you know, theory and principles from the digital world and says, what does an opt-in community look like in practice, right? And why a school? Because you know Harvard was started alongside the Massachusetts Bay Colony to help start America and like Texas A&M helped kind of populate Texas
1:57agricultural and mechanical and Stanford helped build a Bay Area, right? So a school paired with a community is a way to bootstrap a community. Okay, so that's like background. So then specifics, we recently just moved to the amazing country of Kazan. Beautiful country. You guys have seen some of the videos here, some of the photos from the place. And the important thing is we now have um essentially official sponsorship by the government of Kazakhstan. Okay.
2:20And so built in partnership here's a meeting with the prime minister. And importantly we are building a fully digital state says the president of Kazakhstan. So digital state plus network state. They want what we're doing. So we're collaborating with them on recruiting global talent and training local talent synthesizing the two as Silicon Valley did for many years to just turbocharge them. And so that's AI government that's robotics. That's drones, of course, that's, you know, Bitcoin. Um, that's that's everything that tech can do, which is a lot of
2:48things. Techno optimism was written into their constitution recently. They have, um, basically, you know, uh, like billions in crypto. You've got very favorable taxes for for crypto. And in particular, they've got a new startup city called Alao, which they want to build into a million person city on internet first principles. Okay. So built by the internet for the internet from the internet where it has lots of locals of course but also has lots of globals just like you know what is a global city like what New York used to
3:17be and what you know Singapore and Dubai have become a global city that's that's welcoming to talent and capital from around the world right and I think Astana and all can become those global cities within Kazan they have the ambition to get there it's also a really amazing country because it's uh as someone there said it's western Asian Russian and Muslim it's warm because it's western aligned Asian ancestry Russian speaking Muslim religion and it's tolerant to people from everywhere.
3:40So almost everybody has a piece of themselves in Kazakhstan and it's a high-tech country that was built by digital nomads and so because all those things it's a very very very good place uh to go and build basically the Bitcoin enabled future. So that's why we moved there. Um there's more I can say but you know you can look at some of theou stuff AIFC um you know the new Alatia mega city the the PM meeting and then also this dome over here is this amazing dome that everybody thinks is AI generated but it's real is this amazing amazing
4:10amazing thing so come come to school Kazan you should apply and check it out absolutely and and I think you know Bali you've been kind of ahead of the curve on on many trends and you've been developing this this network a thesis alongside the network school. Um, obviously we don't have to get into the the things that happened in Malaysia. I I've looked into it. It seems like maybe there was a little bit of a winch hunt.
4:36That's my words. Um, but I am curious now that you've gone through this process. You you had an issue with one state. Now you're in a new state that's opening you eagerly with open arms. How have you updated your sort of network state thesis? Well, so first is I think it's clear that what we're doing is historically significant. Why? Because most people or most projects just don't nobody cares, right? No one would care
5:05what you were doing. Okay, but the fact that we have full sovereign support and yes, okay, there's some states that don't like it, but some states that really do. That's actually like what cryptocurrency was, right? Crypto community is what comes after cryptocurrency, right? Cryptocurrency was heavily opposed by some governments and heavily supported by others and it was a huge tug-of-war over years. Okay. Um you the meme wars raged for years.
5:29Okay. And you know we we lost some good men. There were some bankruptcies and so on and so forth. But net net we've come much farther. The cause of freedom of individual rights of democracy of capitalism. And you know the capitalism part is obvious because you know Bitcoin ends basically you know the the fiat century of Keynesianism right? So it reintroduces individual rights, individual capitalism as opposed to the Fed setting interest rates for everything. You have a market determin interest rate. So that part is obvious.
5:54True capitalism comes back. But actually also true democracy. And why? Because you have the ability to vote with your feet ballot and or wallet between states. So even if you lose the election or even if you basically you're in a country where elections don't work, okay, or a state like California for example, basically you know the the the party there always wins elections and it's not actually competitive.
6:16multi-arty elections. They've destroyed democracy in California. So, what does that mean? That means your only real option is the more expensive vote, which is to vote with your feet to one of the governments around the world that will accept you. So, you go from the two-party system to the thousand city system. Okay? And that is the democracy of foot voting. There's a intellectual tradition goes all the way back to TBA sorting. Okay? The economist Charles TBO that basically showed that under certain theoretical assumptions, this would mean that public goods get provisioned according to the preferences of the
6:46people. For example, you know, let's say how clean do you want your streets? Do you want them as spotless as Kazakhstan or Singapore, which are spotless, or maybe you'll spend 80% less and get, you know, I don't know, 50% of the cleanliness or whatever. You know, some countries will make that trade-off. Then that's going to be something that different countries can can make a trade-off on or, you know, how stringent do you want your biotech regulations to be? How stringent? Different communities will have different preferences on these things. And now people can migrate to the community that fits their preferences. So really it's not the
7:14network state only but it's the network states plural right and um so the thing about this is uh well let me pause here more I can say but go ahead well so I was going to say um you know the arbitrage that you're talking about um it you're already starting to see it I I was doing some research uh ahead of this and I noticed that when network state moved the real estate in the island that state was on
7:42before the was school before uh let's say it decreased after it moved and now I'm sure Kazakhstan is going to you know have this million person city potentially like that it's an interesting um pairing of of the the physical that's right so if a if a state plays see normally you want to play a win-win game okay like the citizen of the state or the community in the state have a win-win game you guys you know like a community abides the law abides the law they pay their taxes and in turn they
8:11get peace and quiet and kick and build and so on and so forth. If a state decides to play a win-lose game with a community where it persecutes that community especially for you know uh like let's say unreasonable reasons okay now that community has the option of collective exit okay and collective mobility is a nonviolent alternative to a military why do I say that so if you think about what it means to take a group of people and move them from one
8:39city to another city everybody has to work together it's almost like conscription because you basically are sort of opted in you know um because the community is going there you can of course opt out right but basically it's it's something which is a communal whole community effort uh it is done under pressure from a hostile state it's not something you want to get into just like war you don't want to get into it uh it costs money to liquidate and to move but it's completely nonviolent okay and crucially it's actually
9:09especially if you're outnumbered and outgunned but you are what Amy Chua would call a market dominant minority. Okay. Often the hostility of the larger state versus smaller community is that smaller community is succeeding in the market and the larger group is angry or envious or there's some religious intolerance or something like that. They're going after the small community. So now that small community that's otherwise outnumbered or outgunned, we protect minority rights with collective exit. That community so long as it's organized and it has
9:37values, it can take the hit because mobility, collective mobility, it is an economic hit. doesn't have zero cost but that's I mean just like a military you know defense has non-zero cost a mobility defense has non-zero cost right and often this is phrased as you know like quote fight or flight but the new concept is it's not fight or flight at an individual level but at a collective level and really it's immobility or mobility why basically the ultimate sort of blood and soil nationalist is a wood
10:05and soil nationalist is a tree why because they're loyal to the land true to their roots they can't cut and run In fact, they can't even move. Okay. And the opposite of a tree is something that's really mobile and agile. We want to be that. Okay. We want to be like a like an eagle. We want to be able to fly. We want to be able to like a flock of birds. Boom. Take off, right? Two suitcases, two hours, and you know, 2,000 people can move. Okay? If you do that, mobility is leveraged against the state. Those 2,000 people might have the
10:35collective earning power of 200,000 people. And so, suddenly there's a penalty for persecution. It's not simply a win-lose. It's suddenly turned into a lose- win because another state wins since it gets all of that earning and that building and the first persecuting state does look bad and eventually regrets it. Like for example, Uganda many years ago they expelled uh people of Indian origin from Uganda and they called them parasites and so on and so forth and then the Uganda economy crashed. There was famine, all these terrible things and then much later the
11:05Ugandan government said it was a mistake and we're inviting you back or whatever. Okay. Whether Indians would decide to go back, don't know. Okay. Point is, I think we're going to see that kind of thing globally. And I think we need to be ready with collective mobility as a nonviolent alternative to military.
11:20Okay. It's, you know, Bitcoin a most peaceful protest allows that. Well, and it also in in my own experience, it reminds me of COVID in the United States even where you know the states started to have different um different requirements, different uh strategies around it and people moved and that forced a sort of moderating of of different policies and so uh it's it's interesting to see that continue to play out as uh you know as time goes on.
11:44That's right. And the big why does Bitcoin enable this? Because I want to be really precise. In the 20th century in the Soviet Union, Lenin's guys had to go house to house, farm to farm to like, you know, to to kill the father and take the, you know, farm and throw the son a goolog and so on and so forth, right?
12:02And so there's a physical friction associated with that where you need to have guys with guns, guys with tanks and and so on and so forth, but especially guys with guns going house to house to steal all this stuff. And so that took a long time. Keynesianism innovates over bullsheism because to seize 10% of the wealth, you just hit a button and print a trillion dollars. And people even think they're getting richer. Number go up, you know, right? Number go up because value go down, right? If you have, for example, if let's say there's 10 shares outstanding and somebody holds
12:31one share, they have 10% of a company. Now 90 shares are printed and they're given another one share. Okay? So their nominal count goes up to two, but their actual percentage goes down from 10% to 2%. Okay. And so they think they're getting richer because one goes to two.
12:48Wow. 100% returns. But they've actually suffered um you know they went down right from from 10% to 2%. They suffered like a Oops. Uh what is going on?
12:59They've ultimately just been debased and and diluted. Um no absolutely.
13:04Yeah. I'm trying to reopen my laptop.
13:06Okay. It's fine. I'll take it off screen. Well, so I think you know, um, uh, to dive a little bit more into sort of the Bitcoin world, and this is something that I'm actually very curious your opinion on. So, uh, David was just on here a second ago, uh, and and he and Stefan were talking about BIP 110, right?
13:23And, you know, how do you, as someone who is now trying to innovate on an a level above Bitcoin, you know, on the the social layer, on the movement layer, uh, you're building on top of it.
13:35Yeah. How do you think about the sort of ongoing struggle of you know innovating within the technology of Bitcoin itself?
13:43Uh are you are you following these sorts of ideological um debates and arguments around the Bitcoin community? Do you not have time for that? Do you just need Bitcoin to do its thing? You know, how how did you question how did you Yeah. So um I think what's interesting is Bitcoin has now sort of shown a degree of immobility in an resilience whatever in an interesting way where uh in a sense
14:12it kind of resisted a challenge let's call it from its left and its right okay with big blockers and ultra small blockers are now both being rejected in a sense so it's kind of constant okay if if you'd call left being expanding blocks and right being constricting blocks right and reducing block size or throwing out transactions it sort of resisted both okay and um you know I think one can you know make arguments for for whatever position and I'm not even saying I disagree with all these arguments um but those can be done on
14:41other chains and now you know Bitcoin can remain unchanged uh and with that said the thing I'm most excited about at the technical level is uh the new QSB the quantum safe bitcoin transactions so that the first quantum quantum safe bitcoin transaction. If anybody doesn't know about this, you should definitely know about this. May the most important thing happening in Bitcoin this year, QSB, quantum safe bitcoin transactions, because um Ellie Ben Sassen and others figured out how to or rather his team of
15:09people, it's all open source um figured out how to make Bitcoin transactions quantum resistant. And uh that's really important because they were able to do it with script on top of existing Bitcoin. Okay. and uh technical details you can go and look at it. It costs more than a normal transaction but great you can still just build out a wallet you don't have to change the protocol and making a quantum safe transaction if it costs like another whatever number of you know sats fine right because now you
15:39don't have to update the protocol necessarily okay so so that I am interested in now there's another thing which is on the topic of AI and privacy and so forth I think that um bitcoin is not going to it's not going to add it's not going to become wholly private because it's just too much of a change.
15:56However, its transparency is a feature in a very specific context which is if let's say Naive Blly wants to prove how much Bitcoin El Salvador has, he could just post an address and then he can show himself moving funds from that address. Okay. If however, and this is not obvious, if he wanted to post a video of his Fort Knox with the gold bricks, that would not be trusted in the age of AI. You could do a hyperrealistic video from every angle with people there that look exactly like they are. So, no one would trust a video of Fort Knox
16:24anymore, right? Fort Knox may as well not exist in a low trust era, but Bitcoin does. And so, Bitcoin's transparency, I think, means it becomes the reserve currency of Western institutions that need to prove solvency in the post fiat era, right? Like, you know, basically Bitcoin address or GTFO basically, right? And that is actually a way of partially reducing trust in a world where it's an internet first world. Okay. Um, I think you you're
16:53still going to need ZK for many other kinds of things. Um, AI is the attack, ZK is the defense. I think onchain transactions in Bitcoin, you know, chain analysis is becoming something that everybody can do. Okay. But that means that it's going to be, I think, the reserve currency of Western institutions because it is digital gold. So that means the price will go up. However, you may only want to possess it if you're in a country that allows for personal possession of it. And I think you're going to see all three regimes. Did I
17:24Yeah. So, I think you're going to see Bitcoin atheist, Bitcoin monotheist, and Bitcoin polytheist regimes. Okay. So, Bitcoin atheists, that's like a no coiner regime that basically treats private ownership Bitcoin like uh you know, like almost like firearms or something like that where they just don't want you to hold it, right? And many countries will do that. They'll just try and seize the Bitcoin or at least deem it illegal and so on. Bitcoin monotheist says, "Okay, only Bitcoin.
17:49Bitcoin maximalist, right? And everything else is scam, blah, blah." Okay, of course, you know, I I understand that point of view. Um, and then Bitcoin polytheist will say Bitcoin and other currencies, cryptocurrencies.
18:00And I think you're going to see all three of these just like you see atheist, monotheist, polytheist in, you know, religions, right? Or you actually have atheist, monotheist, theist at the level of states. Why? The aist is an anarchist. The monostasis is like an imperialist. My country should rule the world. And the poly status is like a digital nomad. They abide by laws but they switch countries as they see fit.
18:20Right? So I would call myself like polytheist poly statist polycoinist. Right? So NN, right? And others are like you know somebody who's an atheist uh anarchist bitcoin maximalist like 001.
18:33So even if I would agree with them a lot of things technologically they'll have different value propositions underlying it. But once you know other people's values you can at least you know work with them. And then you know to bring it back to the network state the idea would be each of them will have a state that's right so network state is NNN right so it is uh multiple states so it's relationally tolerant obviously multiple states and multiple coins and basically the thing is I think bitcoin becomes king of coins it is king of
19:02coins where one of the things about the sort of defeat of bit 110 is I think it's now every every stable coin ledger can write its chain tip to Bitcoin every 10 minutes because protected by proof of work. Okay? And so for the price of one transaction every 10 minutes um so that's you know 144 transactions a day, right? And then over the course of a year multiply by 365 you can back up the
19:31state of anything in a provable way to the Bitcoin blockchain. I shouldn't say back it up but let's say prove the state of the chain and then anybody who sees a restoration of that database knows they can they can compare it to Bitcoin.
19:43Okay. So that's its second major function which will be I think as important the first a direct uh proof of value store and also a repository of everything that's important to prove existed at that point in time like a like a public notary. Right.
19:56Yeah. I want to I want to push on this a little bit. Well not push on it but double click on it. You know, you mentioned prior uh you said something about, you know, ZK is sort of the defense to AI. Uh I've heard you talk in a few different conversations about, you know, even back to your Fort Knox idea, we're about to go into this world where knowledge and information is just is going to be mass- prodduced. It's going to be AI generated and it's going to be impossible to tell what's real. Uh and then Bitcoin exists in this world also
20:25where it has this verifiable state. And so, you know, what do you see that playing any role outside of this the monetary? Um, so I I think um if something's important to you, you have it offline. If it's important to others, you have it online.
20:43And if it's really important to others, you put it on chain. Okay, that's carefully phrased. Why? When something's really important to others, it's a target of fraud, scams, spam, all this kind of stuff, right? So you want to put it in the equivalent of an armored car on chain which is what Bitcoin is. Okay.
21:01And so it's basically you know bitcoin and crypto is what AI can't do right AI can solve partial differential equations but it can't solve cryptographic equations right basically mathematics gives a hard constraint I essentially unless our you know our complete understanding of elliptic curve cryptography and all this stuff is wrong right if if our unshanging of number theory is wrong which it could be you know maybe some p equals okay so
21:31without discovering new mathematics um many of these things are provably difficult for computers to do and or really impossible for them do in any finite you or reasonable time horizon I should say and so that means that AI runs up against a hard wall which is a cryptographic boundary okay so it could be a very convincing human being could say all kinds of things it could speak in your language does it but show me you know the the cryptographic proof and then it's like reveal feel to be
22:01something else. Okay, so that's going to be a very important thing for the digital world. You're not going to be able to tell what's real, like the void camp test for replicants is cryptography and it's what Bitcoin represents, right?
22:15That's amazing. Uh, okay. So then to bring it all back a little bit to what's happening now in Kazakhstan, uh, as someone who is a, you know, I would put myself in your your category, I guess, as the maximalist. Uh, sure.
22:30Uh, monotheist, you know, somewhere in there, right?
22:33Um, and I look at now what you're building in Kazakhstan. Um, how should I be thinking about it as an individual? Is this something that I should be, you know, signing up and and booking my flight right now?
22:44So, so go to ns, let me see if I can put this back on screen actually. So, go to ns.com. And you said go to ns.com. So that's the network school website.
23:02Yes, that's right. So let's see if we put this on screen. Yeah. So go to ns.com right here. Very easy, very easy URL to remember. Okay. Only two characters. Okay. So and just click apply and apply network school and you can apply by the very importantly individual or couples or families or full teams. Okay. And we've got experience in hosting all of these. um you know like look I love the tech bro you know I guess people call us tech bros but I'm also for the tech mom the tech dad the tech family the tech kids so we're very family friendly right so
23:32um so basically individual couple or family or team and you can choose your sort of package like if you want to just save lots of money we can give you like a dorm rate but if you want to get the most you know maxed out kind of plan we can do that too okay and get you like a nice apartment and essentially um but if you want to live inexpensively you can come to New York school and you can just lock in and work, right? Uh or you could enjoy the beautiful outdoors. They've got amazing horse riding, all this stuff with just 30 minutes outside. It's a two million almost 2 million person cities.
24:01So, it's got everything that a giant city has. It's spotlessly clean. So, basically, come and visit. That's the first step. Just come and visit because whatever your mental image is of Kazakhstan is like think about what El Salvador was known for before Kelly. It was like crime and whatever, right? And then Blly has put it into a totally different category, you know? So, Kastan is similar. It is completely different than what you think of it as. You should come and visit. Uh we're up there. It's it's just this amazing, beautiful country. And uh so that's step one. So go to ns.com apply.
24:31And and I'm curious too, like when you think about the type of person you said, a mom, a dad, a student, even you know, it's a network school. Um am I coming to start a business? Am I coming to to learn? You know, am I coming to just work?
24:45All of these things. So let me show you, you know, some of the things. So basically, you know, we're the new SAS.
24:50Like society is a service, right? So we basically bundle it. That's funny, right?
24:55And so the reason is, you know, like SAS is dead. No, SAS is back. Okay. And we use we basically bundle all this together because when you move to a new, you know, city, if you ever done that before, you have to set up all this stuff for yourself. Like where's the gym and where's like, you know, where can I where's the pharmacy, where's the this, where's that. All of that we just give to you. So you're just productive very quickly. And it takes a surprising amount of time to set up, you know, monitor, all that kind of stuff. Boom.
25:19So, society's service. So, we enable digital nomads. It's a digital nomad hub. One way of thinking about it. Okay. And as I mentioned, so this is our HQ there. This building that looks like a sci-fi building, but it's actually real. Okay. And so, as you as you asked, you can learn tech. So, one thing we're rolling out is pass an exam, get a job.
25:38Okay. So rather than the 48 months and hundreds of thousands of dollars of a college education, we can compress that into pass an exam, get a job, and so we basically have you take a proctored in-person test and then if you do well on that, then we get you a job. Okay? So it's not just for tech founders. We like tech founders, but it's also for individual engineers, people who want to learn and break into tech and so on.
26:00Okay? Crucially, we have got to focus on fundamentals, which is you don't just want to learn how to use AI, but you want to learn probability theory and so and so forth. All of that can be taught by basically giving people books, having them have time and exam, exam, exam, examination over duration. That is to say, rather than four years, if you can get it done in four weeks and you can prove the wet wares in your head, why not just do that, right? So, examination over duration and then you spread rather than a 48 months upfront, you know, college. Imagine you have that 48 months
26:30over your life and every year of 50 years of you know a work career you're retraining like one month. That's kind of what network school is. It's like continuous learning rather than upfront learning, right? Okay. So learn technology. That's a key part. Also work remotely in a community. People have, you know, digital nomads are often lonely. They're isolated. Now we group them together. Everybody understands what you're doing. They understand where you're from. And you can also meet the locals and so on, right? So we have events. We have all that kind of stuff.
26:56So it's not just tech. We have, you know, people do yoga, they do, as I mentioned, horseback riding, they do skiing, they do all these kinds of events, they go to the city, they go to parties and and whatnot, birthday parties, all this stuff. Our community actually knows each other and has moved up to Kasan together. So, it's a real digital nomad community, not simply individuals, right? That's a new a nomadic tribe, right? New thing. Then, you know, we're basically taking crypto tribes, which are famous online for fighting, and we're when we bring them offline, they're cooperating, working together, seeing each other face to
27:23face, building things, right? Um, so co-working community, city, country.
27:28Then third, burn calories. So we try to make it as easy to be healthy as possible. So healthy food, gym, and then we're going to get like, you know, ampic, reiterate, all that kind of stuff. Obviously, you have to get a prescription for that and so on, you know, within the law, but basically all the biotech enhancing stuff. Um, as much or as little of that as you want, you can get that. Okay?
27:48And, uh, so it's basically like for the person who wants to self-improve, right?
27:51And then, you know, bring your family. I mentioned that here. So drop off, tutors, healthy days, and host your company, host events, all this kind of stuff, right? So if if you're the kind of person who's in this audience, you'll probably like network school, right? So just go to ns.com/apply. It's basically printing out tech into the physical world. Amazing. I I have two more questions. So first of all, let's say in a hundred years when you're still very young because you know longevity has advanced, but you're looking back on uh
28:19the network school. uh what will you be looking forward to define as success of this right now as an experiment you know like what would you say is the success state of it?
28:30Good question. I think the most important thing is um if we can have um essentially a lot of network societies around the world. Okay. So and the reason is that I you know I know I don't have all the answers. Okay. I want to see a Lutheran network state. I want to see a keto network state. I want to see, you know, things I couldn't even imagine, right? Um, you know, for example, uh, maybe something oriented
28:58around, you know, some people like the the, you know, this weather or that, whether they want skiing or something like that, the network of ski resorts, all kinds of crazy things will happen.
29:06People are just into physics and they have that, right? They want to do Sanskrit immersion, Latin immersion, want to bring back a dead language, right? So, there's all kinds of themes you could have and it's going to be empirical as to what actually works. And because I don't have all the answers, because I believe in democracy, because I believe in capitalism, I believe that having a thousand different communities and the ability for you to opt into your community, just like right now at age 18, you apply to the best college that will take you, eventually at age 18, you apply to the best country that will take you. And in fact, those are actually
29:35already kind of the same thing. The reason is for many years many of the foreign students that applied to US colleges they got their F1 student visa opt you know H1B and so and so forth that whole era is ending obviously in America everybody's okay fine so that's over in America but I still think that was a very useful path and if you take it and you take away any of the bad pieces and you keep the good okay because it did build a lot of high-tech you take the good pieces and now what you can do is you can have that for all kinds of communities around the world you can come there and you apply to them
30:04just like you would to a college and by The reason I say those three, there's the same thing. You applied to a college, got your student visa, then you applied to a company, got your work visa, then you got your green card and permanent residency and then citizenship and you got your country. So college, company and country were actually one bundled package that took people 10 years to get through. Once we understand that people want to buy that as a package, right? All kinds of talent around the world wants to buy that as a package. And that by the way includes Westerners, that's like British people going to Dubai, right? That is, you know, like you know, Americans, you know, moving around the world, this huge American diaspora now, right? all of
30:33that when all that comes together that is basically what we're what we're doing. Okay.
30:38Okay. Last question then. Um you're you're famous for making very amazing predictions about the future. Uh you were making one to me, you know, just backstage before we got on about where you think Kazakhstan is going to go, but I'll let you take it in whatever direction, you know, 2030. What's something that no one is tracking on and that you think is going to be a huge trend in the next few years?
31:01Yeah. And so um you know my my career started in biotech with DNA sequencing and so on. And in fact the reason I got into Bitcoin is my first company DNA sequencing company um we sold it for sever several hundred million dollars. But uh I realized that the FDA was actually holding back basically decades of innovation. And now to be clear I'm not against regulation per se. It's often binarized as either zero or one.
31:25But obviously most things have more than one bit of complexity. That's why the two-party system also right. So like like a photo has many bits of complexity, not just a like a white or black pixel, right? So it's not just no regulation or regulation. You can reconceptualize regulation as binary classification. That's a concept from machine learning and it basically means you've got a bunch of widgets on an assembly line and you want to let the good widgets through and block the bad widgets. Okay, that's the same as let's say a security line. You want to let you know all the normal travelers through
31:55and anybody who's a bad actor you have them off. That's the same as products at amazon.com. They want to let all the good products through and then flag the ones that are scams or frauds. And similarly for a regulator, they want to let all the good drugs, devices, etc. through and then only flag the bad ones.
32:10So the thing is a false positive and a false negative are both bad and they both have a cost. And if you just ban everything, then yeah, you don't let any bad things through, but you don't let any good things through either. If you permit everything, you let the good things through, but you let the bad things through as well. So you have some trade-off function between false positives and false negatives. That is what binary classification is about. So the next generation of regulation begins with quantifying and thinking about this in terms of binary classification. And so you can do that. That's the kind of thing we're going to be doing in Kazan.
32:38Okay. So um now one way of think about it. Why do I say biotech? We see what held back Uber and Airbnb the taxi and hotel regulations written pre- internet.
32:47Right? As Larry Page said, any law written before the internet is probably obsolete. At least it needs to be reinvestigated, right? Because it just changes so many premises. you know, instant global communication and broadcast and all this kind of stuff, drones, AI, like everything written before the internet needs to be reexamined in light of the internet.
33:02Even for example, quote, the right to bear arms in, you know, 776 is itself something that references a technology because firearms didn't exist for much of human history, right? Um, any laws on flight obviously reference planes that didn't exist, right? So, new technologies do mean new laws. Point is um once we saw what hotel and taxi regulations had held back once we saw what the SEC had been holding back in terms of Bitcoin ETF and all these things okay you can now infer what the FDA is holding back the reason we don't
33:31have limmer generation the reason we don't have these things is because of the FDA right the it is because of these ancient governments that you you have these problems right and so we just need is new governments where people can opt out take risk and actually build you know start societies with new regulations and that's going to enable biotech Amazing. Well, ladies and gentlemen, Bali Shinasan. [applause] Thank you so much.
33:59[music] Every year, this community comes together [music] to celebrate, to debate, to build what comes next. [music] And every year, the stage gets bigger.
34:18[music] Sound money center stage. So where do you go to celebrate the [music] next chapter in Bitcoin history?
34:29You come home. [music] Nashville, July 2027.
